6 ms·

The usual caveat that it's meant to measure a "hardship index" for companies relocating workers. I wouldn't use it as a measure for where to best move to as the

by ido 3y ago

The usual caveat that it's meant to measure a "hardship index" for companies relocating workers. I wouldn't use it as a measure for where to best move to as there are many factors it doesn't measure (such as how good the job market is, how expensive cost of living is, etc)- aside from maybe preferring cities in the approximate top (80+ out of 100), which is mostly "nice" cities in the developed world (no surprise there). Assuming you're anyway not contemplating moving to Nairobi or Tehran I don't think this really gives much useful info as you can't really say you'd like life in a city with a slightly better score than another, it only matter if the gap is large. E.g. I spent 8 years living in Vienna followed by 10 years in Berlin (a bit further below in the rating) and I don't feel my quality of life is at all lower here (I much prefer living in Berlin)- the main difference I notice is that Vienna is much better at cleaning up the trash from public spaces than Berlin, and a smaller city is generally easier to navigate.

calebj0seph 3y ago
Yep, Sydney is ranked #4 yet is currently experiencing a severe shortage of rental properties where the average rent is now 40% higher[1] than 2 years ago. [1] https://sqmresearch.com.au/weekly-rents.php?region=nsw-Sydney&type=c&t=1 https://sqmresearch.com.au/weekly-rents.php?region=nsw-Sydne...
- somerandomqaguy 3y ago
  I think that's most cities. Toronto's rents have gone up about the same since two years ago, but many cities in Ontario and British Columbia have had rents go up quite a lot as well. I think Nova Scotia also saw pretty significant rent increases as well but I could be mixing it up with Prince Edward Island.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    It's actually worse in Vancouver (BC): https://globalnews.ca/news/9424677/rent-prices-canada-january-2023/ https://globalnews.ca/news/9424677/rent-prices-canada-januar...
- avinoth 3y ago
  Same for zurich and geneva as well. It’s almost a meme here for finding rental apartments within nominal budgets. They’re nice to live “if” you could afford to.
  - expertentipp 3y ago
    Swiss companies are glad to hire EU folks just below the average Swiss salary. The relocation package is "we expect you to show up in the office on the first day".
  - prodent 3y ago
    I would describe my personal experience in Zurich (and having lived in Berlin before) a bit differently. Everyone loves whining about finding a place to rent in both places, but in Berlin it's about finding anything at all whereas in Zurich it's usually about finding something cheap and ideally in a desirable Kreis 3 or Kreis 4 neighborhood. Yes it's competitive, but you will find something with realistic expectations + budget. NB: I don't earn a big tech salary either. If you land a Google/Meta/IBM/Disney/adjacent job, the (rental) housing market should not give you any headaches.
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      Indeed. Which is worst, cities like Zurich and London where housing is very expensive but is available especially with a skilled job, or Berlin where housing is not too expensive, but almost non available to newcomers even on skilled jobs?
      - expertentipp 3y ago
        Which is worse chlamydia or syphilis? > Berlin where housing is not too expensive, but almost non available to newcomers even on skilled jobs? It's not available to long term residents either. In Berlin one has to compile and update monthly the application portfolio. Good luck having a landlord who'll issue debt free certificate more often than once a year. Think will get away without debt free certificate? Someone else will have it, sorry.
ChuckNorris89 3y ago
>I spent 8 years living in Vienna followed by 10 years in Berlin (a bit further below in the rating) and I don't feel my quality of life is at all lower here (I much prefer living in Berlin) Obviously. People and individuals value completely different things for their personal quality of life than whatever variables, weights and values The Economist uses to calculate their scores. Their formula constantly puts Vienna at the top, a city which also comes out at the top of the least friendly cities for expats surveys, which is an important metric for many expats. I don't give a damn how livable a city is on paper in some random statistic, and especially if the computed livability is disproportionately biased towards the locals and against the foreigners (FPÖ, the far right party in Austria founded by Nazis, keeps getting 22% to 32% votes lately, and since it's disproportionately difficult to become a citizen to vote them out, compared to all other EU countries, so you'll be stuck in "taxation without representation" limbo, working to fund the coffers of a country where nearly a third of citizens hate your kind) My point is, livability means far more for most people than whatever The Economist measures, and I'm tired their trope keeps being regurgitated every year everywhere like it's some ground truth on livability. It's not. Livability means so much more, that The Economist doesn't talk about.
- rolisz 3y ago
  Where can you vote without being a citizen? I think across all of Europe you have to be a citizen to be able to vote.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    See the emphasis in my comment on the extreme difficulty of getting citizenship, meaning you'll most likely never be able to vote, unlike other EU countries were getting citizenship a very easy if you've worked and paid taxes a few years, and where you get to keep your other citizenship to not make your life more difficult should you still have businesses to solve back home.
    - jhoechtl 3y ago
      Maybe a cohesive society where only those living there long term having a vote contributes to being worlds most lively city?
vr46 3y ago
An FB friend is forever blathering on about Vienna and while I think it’s a nice city, her photos and my own limited experience suggest that it’s a great city to live in if you’re Caucasian - how diverse is the place really?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kaba0 3y ago
  It’s a European capital. Of course most people will be of European origin. But for Vienna specifically, it has a sizable Turkish population as well (didn’t find a chart about ethnicity-based geographics). I also think (having visited it, but not having lived there, but a culturally similar capital) that while there are definitely some stereotype issues, it is definitely less pronounced in capitals where people actually can occasionally meet with people of color (certain ethnicities are extremely rare in this part of Europe) - but I can’t answer it any more than that.
  - vr46 3y ago
    Not all people born in Europe are caucasian, you know! And the OECD argues that major world cities often have more in common with each other than other cities and towns in their own countries, in both demographics and challenges, and I find Vienna to be less of a world city in the demographic respect.

by ido 3y ago

calebj0seph 3y ago

Yep, Sydney is ranked #4 yet is currently experiencing a severe shortage of rental properties where the average rent is now 40% higher[1] than 2 years ago. [1] https://sqmresearch.com.au/weekly-rents.php?region=nsw-Sydney&type=c&t=1 https://sqmresearch.com.au/weekly-rents.php?region=nsw-Sydne...

somerandomqaguy 3y ago
I think that's most cities. Toronto's rents have gone up about the same since two years ago, but many cities in Ontario and British Columbia have had rents go up quite a lot as well. I think Nova Scotia also saw pretty significant rent increases as well but I could be mixing it up with Prince Edward Island.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  It's actually worse in Vancouver (BC): https://globalnews.ca/news/9424677/rent-prices-canada-january-2023/ https://globalnews.ca/news/9424677/rent-prices-canada-januar...
avinoth 3y ago
Same for zurich and geneva as well. It’s almost a meme here for finding rental apartments within nominal budgets. They’re nice to live “if” you could afford to.
- expertentipp 3y ago
  Swiss companies are glad to hire EU folks just below the average Swiss salary. The relocation package is "we expect you to show up in the office on the first day".
- prodent 3y ago
  I would describe my personal experience in Zurich (and having lived in Berlin before) a bit differently. Everyone loves whining about finding a place to rent in both places, but in Berlin it's about finding anything at all whereas in Zurich it's usually about finding something cheap and ideally in a desirable Kreis 3 or Kreis 4 neighborhood. Yes it's competitive, but you will find something with realistic expectations + budget. NB: I don't earn a big tech salary either. If you land a Google/Meta/IBM/Disney/adjacent job, the (rental) housing market should not give you any headaches.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Indeed. Which is worst, cities like Zurich and London where housing is very expensive but is available especially with a skilled job, or Berlin where housing is not too expensive, but almost non available to newcomers even on skilled jobs?
    - expertentipp 3y ago
      Which is worse chlamydia or syphilis? > Berlin where housing is not too expensive, but almost non available to newcomers even on skilled jobs? It's not available to long term residents either. In Berlin one has to compile and update monthly the application portfolio. Good luck having a landlord who'll issue debt free certificate more often than once a year. Think will get away without debt free certificate? Someone else will have it, sorry.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago

>I spent 8 years living in Vienna followed by 10 years in Berlin (a bit further below in the rating) and I don't feel my quality of life is at all lower here (I much prefer living in Berlin) Obviously. People and individuals value completely different things for their personal quality of life than whatever variables, weights and values The Economist uses to calculate their scores. Their formula constantly puts Vienna at the top, a city which also comes out at the top of the least friendly cities for expats surveys, which is an important metric for many expats. I don't give a damn how livable a city is on paper in some random statistic, and especially if the computed livability is disproportionately biased towards the locals and against the foreigners (FPÖ, the far right party in Austria founded by Nazis, keeps getting 22% to 32% votes lately, and since it's disproportionately difficult to become a citizen to vote them out, compared to all other EU countries, so you'll be stuck in "taxation without representation" limbo, working to fund the coffers of a country where nearly a third of citizens hate your kind) My point is, livability means far more for most people than whatever The Economist measures, and I'm tired their trope keeps being regurgitated every year everywhere like it's some ground truth on livability. It's not. Livability means so much more, that The Economist doesn't talk about.

rolisz 3y ago
Where can you vote without being a citizen? I think across all of Europe you have to be a citizen to be able to vote.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  See the emphasis in my comment on the extreme difficulty of getting citizenship, meaning you'll most likely never be able to vote, unlike other EU countries were getting citizenship a very easy if you've worked and paid taxes a few years, and where you get to keep your other citizenship to not make your life more difficult should you still have businesses to solve back home.
  - jhoechtl 3y ago
    Maybe a cohesive society where only those living there long term having a vote contributes to being worlds most lively city?

vr46 3y ago

An FB friend is forever blathering on about Vienna and while I think it’s a nice city, her photos and my own limited experience suggest that it’s a great city to live in if you’re Caucasian - how diverse is the place really?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kaba0 3y ago
It’s a European capital. Of course most people will be of European origin. But for Vienna specifically, it has a sizable Turkish population as well (didn’t find a chart about ethnicity-based geographics). I also think (having visited it, but not having lived there, but a culturally similar capital) that while there are definitely some stereotype issues, it is definitely less pronounced in capitals where people actually can occasionally meet with people of color (certain ethnicities are extremely rare in this part of Europe) - but I can’t answer it any more than that.
- vr46 3y ago
  Not all people born in Europe are caucasian, you know! And the OECD argues that major world cities often have more in common with each other than other cities and towns in their own countries, in both demographics and challenges, and I find Vienna to be less of a world city in the demographic respect.