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> God made the rules and could have created a completely different world which doesn’t have the limitations that this one has. This is an assumption you are ma

> God made the rules and could have created a completely different world which doesn’t have the limitations that this one has. This is an assumption you are making that many (most?) religions do not.

krapp 3y ago
> This is an assumption you are making that many (most?) religions do not. We're really only talking about the Abrahamic faiths here, which are the ones making claims about God being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. Any limitation to God's abilities implies that God is not all-powerful. If it is the case that this universe of sin and decay and the literal hail Mary of self-sacrifice on the cross with the result, as described in the book of Revelations, that the vast majority of humans who have ever lived will still burn in Hell for eternity is really the best God can do, then God cannot be all powerful. If God is all powerful then everything is arbitrary to Him. He chooses to allow evil. He chooses not to forgive sin. He chooses a pyrrhic victory at the end of time where evil still mostly wins. Incompetent, yes. Malicious, certainly. To quote George Carlin, this is not work that belongs on the resume of a Supreme Being. All powerful? Obviously not. Other religions don't have this problem. The gods of many other religions are limited in their capabilities and often exist within the framework of a cycle that allows constant redemption and renewal through reincarnation. In many ways, the cosmos itself is the highest power, and the gods are just what sits above humanity, but it's all still a part of the same flawed yet transcendental machine. There's always hope. With the Abrahamic faiths, there is only always existential dread. God by default will cast you into perdition, your sins are absolute and immutable, and if you fuck up the one life you have there are no second chances.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
avgcorrection 3y ago
Oh my God. Of course I’m presupposing the idea of the omnipotent/omniscient/… God: > > Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then from whence comes evil? Because that’s the premise of the problem statement! > This is an assumption you are making that many (most?) religions do not. And?
- bart_spoon 3y ago
  The original problem is only a problem is you are making those assumptions. When most religions aren’t making those assumptions, the entire thing becomes a strawman argument
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    Do you know what assumptions are? Clearly not. For some reason you decided to take this up with someone who was responding to a problem statement which had already been established; the parameters were set. I don’t know why you seem to be taking offense to the part about how this is a “religious problem”. No, that doesn’t mean that all religions share this supposed problem. Rebirth/reincarnation is relevant to Hinduism but not all religions. And a glib response about how “not all religions” make these assumptions is also a useless starting point. (Not that I care to discuss this with anyone since it’s not my pet cause.) My first thought was that you might be alluding to something like Buddhism or some other very non-Christian religion. But I see in some other comments that you mention “other Christian sects”. Okay, yeah, sure. That makes things really simple to respond to: Hey, not all religions share these assumptions! (But I’m not gonna tell you where I’m coming from, either.)

krapp 3y ago

> This is an assumption you are making that many (most?) religions do not. We're really only talking about the Abrahamic faiths here, which are the ones making claims about God being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. Any limitation to God's abilities implies that God is not all-powerful. If it is the case that this universe of sin and decay and the literal hail Mary of self-sacrifice on the cross with the result, as described in the book of Revelations, that the vast majority of humans who have ever lived will still burn in Hell for eternity is really the best God can do, then God cannot be all powerful. If God is all powerful then everything is arbitrary to Him. He chooses to allow evil. He chooses not to forgive sin. He chooses a pyrrhic victory at the end of time where evil still mostly wins. Incompetent, yes. Malicious, certainly. To quote George Carlin, this is not work that belongs on the resume of a Supreme Being. All powerful? Obviously not. Other religions don't have this problem. The gods of many other religions are limited in their capabilities and often exist within the framework of a cycle that allows constant redemption and renewal through reincarnation. In many ways, the cosmos itself is the highest power, and the gods are just what sits above humanity, but it's all still a part of the same flawed yet transcendental machine. There's always hope. With the Abrahamic faiths, there is only always existential dread. God by default will cast you into perdition, your sins are absolute and immutable, and if you fuck up the one life you have there are no second chances.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

avgcorrection 3y ago

Oh my God. Of course I’m presupposing the idea of the omnipotent/omniscient/… God: > > Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then from whence comes evil? Because that’s the premise of the problem statement! > This is an assumption you are making that many (most?) religions do not. And?

bart_spoon 3y ago
The original problem is only a problem is you are making those assumptions. When most religions aren’t making those assumptions, the entire thing becomes a strawman argument
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  Do you know what assumptions are? Clearly not. For some reason you decided to take this up with someone who was responding to a problem statement which had already been established; the parameters were set. I don’t know why you seem to be taking offense to the part about how this is a “religious problem”. No, that doesn’t mean that all religions share this supposed problem. Rebirth/reincarnation is relevant to Hinduism but not all religions. And a glib response about how “not all religions” make these assumptions is also a useless starting point. (Not that I care to discuss this with anyone since it’s not my pet cause.) My first thought was that you might be alluding to something like Buddhism or some other very non-Christian religion. But I see in some other comments that you mention “other Christian sects”. Okay, yeah, sure. That makes things really simple to respond to: Hey, not all religions share these assumptions! (But I’m not gonna tell you where I’m coming from, either.)