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> rights are "granted by the government" which can't be further from the truth in the US. Yeah, this is a disconcerting trend that I've observed too. Do you th

> rights are "granted by the government" which can't be further from the truth in the US. Yeah, this is a disconcerting trend that I've observed too. Do you this think could be an issue that's always existed at the same levels and is now easier to observe due to the window of social media (and looks like a trend), or do you think it's something new?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
It’s a non-obvious concept. If you don’t have some knowledge of the history of law, civics and republics, it’s easy to think of the Bill of Rights as granting rights.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  Even with some knowledge of those things, it's hard to rationalize inherent rights with what we do to noncitizens. Everybody has these rights, but for some reason the Bill of Rights only protects the rights of Americans. Pretty easy to mistake that as the Bill of Rights granting rights.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    >for some reason the Bill of Rights only protects the rights of Americans. That is because the Bill of Rights form the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution, the preamble of which opens thusly: "We the people of the United States,"[1] That literature has been interpreted by the courts as the Constitution only applying to United States citizens. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution#People_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_... Obligatory IANAL.
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      >That literature has been interpreted by the courts as the Constitution only applying to United States citizens "For some reason" seems like a fair description of that. It's not explicitly said, the closest is "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity." And "We the people" is talking about who wrote it, I don't get how one can claim that bit is who it applies to. I get the arguments made to do this, to me they seem clearly against the spirit of the Bill of Rights/Founding Fathers, something we generally hold to be sacrosanct.
bobthepanda 3y ago
One possible theory is that in the race to standardize and push farther on standardized testing subjects, non core curriculums are getting cut because they are not tested for and the US has not expanded the school day or year significantly.
- xethos 3y ago
  > the US has not expanded the school day or year significantly. No, but while some students can benefit from the internet in general for school, I'm convinced keeping a socially-expected Skinner box on one's person every waking hour is not great in general. More specifically, learning complex, multi-faceted, and important topics while (attempting to) ignore the Skinner box is not good for any subject that is not, or cannot be, subjected to standardized testing - and many subjects that are.
theendisney 3y ago
Nothing is ever strange until compared. Nothing is large, nothing is small, only normality can exist in a vacuüm.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

It’s a non-obvious concept. If you don’t have some knowledge of the history of law, civics and republics, it’s easy to think of the Bill of Rights as granting rights.

boomboomsubban 3y ago
Even with some knowledge of those things, it's hard to rationalize inherent rights with what we do to noncitizens. Everybody has these rights, but for some reason the Bill of Rights only protects the rights of Americans. Pretty easy to mistake that as the Bill of Rights granting rights.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >for some reason the Bill of Rights only protects the rights of Americans. That is because the Bill of Rights form the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution, the preamble of which opens thusly: "We the people of the United States,"[1] That literature has been interpreted by the courts as the Constitution only applying to United States citizens. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution#People_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_... Obligatory IANAL.
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    >That literature has been interpreted by the courts as the Constitution only applying to United States citizens "For some reason" seems like a fair description of that. It's not explicitly said, the closest is "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity." And "We the people" is talking about who wrote it, I don't get how one can claim that bit is who it applies to. I get the arguments made to do this, to me they seem clearly against the spirit of the Bill of Rights/Founding Fathers, something we generally hold to be sacrosanct.

bobthepanda 3y ago

One possible theory is that in the race to standardize and push farther on standardized testing subjects, non core curriculums are getting cut because they are not tested for and the US has not expanded the school day or year significantly.

xethos 3y ago
> the US has not expanded the school day or year significantly. No, but while some students can benefit from the internet in general for school, I'm convinced keeping a socially-expected Skinner box on one's person every waking hour is not great in general. More specifically, learning complex, multi-faceted, and important topics while (attempting to) ignore the Skinner box is not good for any subject that is not, or cannot be, subjected to standardized testing - and many subjects that are.

theendisney 3y ago

Nothing is ever strange until compared. Nothing is large, nothing is small, only normality can exist in a vacuüm.