5 ms·

Your computers were tools for building... anything, and the manufacturers (especially Apple back then) actually educated, promoted and rewarded amazing things.

by skeeter2020 3y ago

Your computers were tools for building... anything, and the manufacturers (especially Apple back then) actually educated, promoted and rewarded amazing things. This is a consumer device tightly coupled to the most restrictive ecosystem we've ever seen. Doesn't seem like a hackers' playground.

scarface_74 3y ago
I paid $10 a month to distribute my little freeware on AOL in college so normal people could access it. I also submitted it to info-Mac archive via ftp. I would have gladly paid $99 a year for the bragging rights of putting my app on the iOS App Store so anyone could get it. I paid for a 65C02 compiler back in mid 80s using my allowance and paid for a Mac C compiler in the early 90s. My parents were solidly middle class - a factory worker and a teacher.
- thegginthesky 3y ago
  The point isn't paying to publish apps, the point is that you can't hack into it if this is anything like iOS. If this runs a version of iOS, we can't access the code that is running in it, we can't open a terminal, we can't use our programing language of choice. We can't use the actual device for building anything hacker related by itself. We can make apps for it using an actual PC made for building, but only if it runs MacOS, ans using their proprietary language. The actual device is far from a hackers dream or plaything if its as locked up as the iPhone. But very cool device though, hopefully it brings VR into Mainstram outside of gaming
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    You can definitely hack iOS all you want to, use private APIs, do all sorts of things that are against the App Store rules, run it on your own device and publish the code to GitHub to let other hackers compile it and run it from source. iPhone enthusiasts Stephen Hackett (his real name), hack into pre-release versions of iOS all of the time to see how it’s running from their computer. Even that 1986 6th grade hacker that I was would never want to program on the phone. I fail to see the fascination with running a fully fledged IDE on a phone. When I was programming on the very open Windows CE devices pre-iPhone, I avoided running on the phone as long as possible and used the emulator. You can use any programming language you want that compiles down to ARM.
    - LordDragonfang 3y ago
      >I was would never want to program on the phone. I fail to see the fascination with running a fully fledged IDE on a phone. Problem is, Apple isn't advertising this as a phone or "mobile device". They're advertising it as a spatial computer. And IDEs are probably my second-most-used computer applications after web browsers, so I want to be able to use them with the near-endless monitor space offered by this spatial computer.
    - eclipxe 3y ago
      Great comment and replies. Thank you.
    - omnicognate 3y ago
      Do tell me how I can run my own home screen, directly access the filesystem, write my own device driver or tweak the kernel without voiding my warranty and risking bricking my phone using a jailbreak exploit, assuming one is available for my device. This "you can build and directly deploy an app to a limited number of devices if you're on the developer program and have a mac, therefore you can 'hack iOS all you want'" meme is borderline dishonest. Also, the fact that you "fail to see the fascination" is of little significance to those who do want to develop on-device. You don't get to make "you can hack iOS all you want" work by restricting what people are allowed to want.
      - l33t233372 3y ago
        > voiding my warranty and risking bricking my phone using a jailbreak exploit Messing around with the kernel generally does run the risk of voiding warranties and bricking devices.
        omnicognate 3y ago
        So?
        l33t233372 3y ago
        So why are you mentioning it like it’s a unique drawback? It’s inherent to the activity!
enraged_camel 3y ago
You know, open-mindedness and being curious about new things is part of the hacker ethos. If you are dismissing something without even experiencing it, based on nothing other than preconceived notions about it, maybe you aren’t really a hacker in the true sense of the word? Just a thought.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  I guess I’m also not a Scotsman… Do you also want to run an IDE on the Apple Watch?
criddell 3y ago
> most restrictive ecosystem we’ve ever seen I get what you are trying to say, but this just isn’t true.
raverbashing 3y ago
Not everything people build/produce is a program running on the terminal The cost of deploying to App Store is negligible compared to the rest of the HW needed

scarface_74 3y ago

I paid $10 a month to distribute my little freeware on AOL in college so normal people could access it. I also submitted it to info-Mac archive via ftp. I would have gladly paid $99 a year for the bragging rights of putting my app on the iOS App Store so anyone could get it. I paid for a 65C02 compiler back in mid 80s using my allowance and paid for a Mac C compiler in the early 90s. My parents were solidly middle class - a factory worker and a teacher.

thegginthesky 3y ago
The point isn't paying to publish apps, the point is that you can't hack into it if this is anything like iOS. If this runs a version of iOS, we can't access the code that is running in it, we can't open a terminal, we can't use our programing language of choice. We can't use the actual device for building anything hacker related by itself. We can make apps for it using an actual PC made for building, but only if it runs MacOS, ans using their proprietary language. The actual device is far from a hackers dream or plaything if its as locked up as the iPhone. But very cool device though, hopefully it brings VR into Mainstram outside of gaming
- scarface_74 3y ago
  You can definitely hack iOS all you want to, use private APIs, do all sorts of things that are against the App Store rules, run it on your own device and publish the code to GitHub to let other hackers compile it and run it from source. iPhone enthusiasts Stephen Hackett (his real name), hack into pre-release versions of iOS all of the time to see how it’s running from their computer. Even that 1986 6th grade hacker that I was would never want to program on the phone. I fail to see the fascination with running a fully fledged IDE on a phone. When I was programming on the very open Windows CE devices pre-iPhone, I avoided running on the phone as long as possible and used the emulator. You can use any programming language you want that compiles down to ARM.
  - LordDragonfang 3y ago
    >I was would never want to program on the phone. I fail to see the fascination with running a fully fledged IDE on a phone. Problem is, Apple isn't advertising this as a phone or "mobile device". They're advertising it as a spatial computer. And IDEs are probably my second-most-used computer applications after web browsers, so I want to be able to use them with the near-endless monitor space offered by this spatial computer.
  - eclipxe 3y ago
    Great comment and replies. Thank you.
  - omnicognate 3y ago
    Do tell me how I can run my own home screen, directly access the filesystem, write my own device driver or tweak the kernel without voiding my warranty and risking bricking my phone using a jailbreak exploit, assuming one is available for my device. This "you can build and directly deploy an app to a limited number of devices if you're on the developer program and have a mac, therefore you can 'hack iOS all you want'" meme is borderline dishonest. Also, the fact that you "fail to see the fascination" is of little significance to those who do want to develop on-device. You don't get to make "you can hack iOS all you want" work by restricting what people are allowed to want.
    - l33t233372 3y ago
      > voiding my warranty and risking bricking my phone using a jailbreak exploit Messing around with the kernel generally does run the risk of voiding warranties and bricking devices.
      - omnicognate 3y ago
        So?
        l33t233372 3y ago
        So why are you mentioning it like it’s a unique drawback? It’s inherent to the activity!

enraged_camel 3y ago

You know, open-mindedness and being curious about new things is part of the hacker ethos. If you are dismissing something without even experiencing it, based on nothing other than preconceived notions about it, maybe you aren’t really a hacker in the true sense of the word? Just a thought.

scarface_74 3y ago
I guess I’m also not a Scotsman… Do you also want to run an IDE on the Apple Watch?

criddell 3y ago

> most restrictive ecosystem we’ve ever seen I get what you are trying to say, but this just isn’t true.

raverbashing 3y ago

Not everything people build/produce is a program running on the terminal The cost of deploying to App Store is negligible compared to the rest of the HW needed