6 ms·

Ironically, the article seems to briefly forget that we're dealing with a fellow human being here. How cruel is it to discuss him publicly, and diagnose him pub

Ironically, the article seems to briefly forget that we're dealing with a fellow human being here. How cruel is it to discuss him publicly, and diagnose him publicly? Do you think it's impossible that he'd end up reading any of this? How would that feel, to have a bunch of people discussing what they guess your health problems to be? People generally cannot be helped unless they want to be. Sharing his personal information in some misguided attempt to "help" is not likely to turn out well. And unfortunately, as a practical matter, no community should be expected to tolerate a stream of senseless diatribes just because of the person writing them. To some extent, everyone is responsible for their own well-being. Very few people completely lack any self-awareness; if you know you have a health problem, whether mental or otherwise, it is your responsibility to seek help. It's a responsibility you owe yourself, your family and friends, and society. Other than that, we shouldn't be discussing people like this.

zerostar07 15y ago
Agree about the public disclosure, but disagree that a mentally ill person can be expected to be responsible for their own wellbeing. It's logically impossible. And btw medication works quite well.
- rbarooah 15y ago
  It's only logically impossible if you have a binary definition of mental 'illness'.
  - zerostar07 15y ago
    It would be hard to dismiss schizophrenia as a non-illness, what's your point?
  - DanBC 15y ago
    Mental health problems do make self-care a lot harder for some people. I agree that it's possible for many people with MH problems to seek appropriate care when they need it; or to have in place "rainy day action plans" to help other people spot times when help is needed. But there are a few people who need help, but just don't think that they need help. It's judgemental and unhelpful to suggest that this small minority is somehow selfish or irresponsible for not seeking help.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
kristopolous 15y ago
Hi I'm the author of the article. Thanks for your comment. * I didn't post the article here and I wrote it in about 70 minutes; I had no intention of opening up this discussion in HN. * All the information is very public, most of it authored by the gentleman in promotional materials. * The article is about accepting and awareness. There's been much harsher words said about the individual and his project. * The article is mostly in praise of his accomplishments. * I have known very similar people and so this hit me on a personal level. * As an article there's some general rules that yield a good read. I guess I could have been non-specific, or asked for consent of the family, I didn't know this was going to gain so much traction.
- vixen99 15y ago
  Going public means ....going public.
  - kristopolous 15y ago
    Yeah. I've only recently become good at it. Changes things enormously when you are no longer ignored.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
- xd 15y ago
  You say this hit you on a personal level because you have known similar people .. I watched a close friend fall apart from mental illness who was an amazingly talented coder and I can say without any doubt that your article will do nothing but harm to this guy.
  - kristopolous 15y ago
    That's horrible. Should I just take it down? I mean really, I don't want to do anything bad like that. I could try to stay up and remove the stuff referring to him ... but I've been struggling to build context without using him as a concrete example. Edit: I'm re-editing it now. (I should be in bed, ug tired) 03:45 I think it is a better job now ... hopefully you find it more acceptable; I'm starting to become a bit incoherent myself and need to catch a wink. 04:25 Just finished another round of editing. I do really hope everything is better. (4:50 still going ... )
Nathandim 15y ago
Exactly this. To think that doctors can diagnose a person over the internet is already far stretched, since some health problems need examinations, tests and proper studying about the nature of the problem and the ones that they do are doing it by using specific websites and they emphasize how they cannot do a proper diagnosis but just interpret the symptoms - not talking about psychological issues exclusively here. But for members of community to point their finger saying "this guy has this, can't you tell?" is brutal. Just brutal. If you really care about a person's health (especially when it's psychological) you don't do this. Instead, you try to come in contact with him or family or at worst with some professional around his town and treat him with the dignity an ill human deserves to be treated. This feels like we're all discussing about him in the town square and when he comes by we'll just give him the stare while he walks around. How's that helpful? Cruel? It's sick. Mo matter how much "socially acceptable" it is, it doesn't make it less wrong.
- kristopolous 15y ago
  I'm working on an edit.
kiloaper 15y ago
>Very few people completely lack any self-awareness; if you know you have a health problem, whether mental or otherwise, it is your responsibility to seek help. It's a responsibility you owe yourself, your family and friends, and society. Clearly you've had the good luck to never have had to deal with any mental health problem ever. The problem with mental health problems is that when your mind isn't functioning properly, how can you be expected to diagnosis yourself and seek treatment? It's like expecting a broken robot to repair itself. For example, when depression robs you of all motivation and the very will to live, how can you be expected to recognize the symptoms and go out there and seek help?
- AndyJPartridge 15y ago
  >when depression robs you of all motivation and the very will to live, how can you be expected to recognize the symptoms and go out there and seek help? I, for one, didn't realise I'd become depressed. It took my partner and my best friend to take me to get diagnosed and treated. On reflection, it's frightening to think I didn't realise.
  - jaryd 15y ago
    Amazing how common this is!
- japhyr 15y ago
  Also, when people do find effective treatment there is a tendency to feel they are healthy, and cease treatment. This results in an endless cycle of being symptomatic and not getting help, getting help and managing mental health issues, and letting go of the help that is making someone healthy.
lwhi 15y ago
With most things that can be seen as contentious, it's worth asking 'what good could come from this?'. In the case of this article, I think that people might be reminded to be more sympathetic when they encounter someone who is experiencing mental illness. However, the way a person actually relates to their own experiences while classed as mentally ill is a personal thing. Lack of understanding is probably the biggest barrier - and well meaning sympathy isn't always going to have a positive effect on someone's well-being. It might actual just compound the problem. I think there's an element of the freak-show here, because the guy who's the subject of the article is being used as 'exhibit a' in a discussion of what can manifest from mental illness. On the flip side - mental illness does seem to be an area of life that's rarely discussed openly. Rather than stand by and look at the wreckage - it's probably more constructive to think about what can be done to help tackle mental health issues more generally. http://www.mind.org.uk/ http://www.mind.org.uk/ is a UK-based charity who are doing good things in this area.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
tomp 15y ago
The problem with "mental illness" is that it is usually not really mental, just the symptoms are. The illness itself is caused by purely physiological stuff, like lack/excess of this or that hormone or other substance. In most cases, modern science is unable to help, and you most definitely cannot help yourself!
shin_lao 15y ago
Exactly. When talking about an ill person generally you just use the first name (more often not the real first name), and make sure it's not obvious who you are talking about. I've read a fair share of psychiatric books and they all have this "rule". The OP should at the very least edit out the name of the person and remove references to his work.

zerostar07 15y ago

Agree about the public disclosure, but disagree that a mentally ill person can be expected to be responsible for their own wellbeing. It's logically impossible. And btw medication works quite well.

rbarooah 15y ago
It's only logically impossible if you have a binary definition of mental 'illness'.
- zerostar07 15y ago
  It would be hard to dismiss schizophrenia as a non-illness, what's your point?
- DanBC 15y ago
  Mental health problems do make self-care a lot harder for some people. I agree that it's possible for many people with MH problems to seek appropriate care when they need it; or to have in place "rainy day action plans" to help other people spot times when help is needed. But there are a few people who need help, but just don't think that they need help. It's judgemental and unhelpful to suggest that this small minority is somehow selfish or irresponsible for not seeking help.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

kristopolous 15y ago

Hi I'm the author of the article. Thanks for your comment. * I didn't post the article here and I wrote it in about 70 minutes; I had no intention of opening up this discussion in HN. * All the information is very public, most of it authored by the gentleman in promotional materials. * The article is about accepting and awareness. There's been much harsher words said about the individual and his project. * The article is mostly in praise of his accomplishments. * I have known very similar people and so this hit me on a personal level. * As an article there's some general rules that yield a good read. I guess I could have been non-specific, or asked for consent of the family, I didn't know this was going to gain so much traction.

vixen99 15y ago
Going public means ....going public.
- kristopolous 15y ago
  Yeah. I've only recently become good at it. Changes things enormously when you are no longer ignored.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
xd 15y ago
You say this hit you on a personal level because you have known similar people .. I watched a close friend fall apart from mental illness who was an amazingly talented coder and I can say without any doubt that your article will do nothing but harm to this guy.
- kristopolous 15y ago
  That's horrible. Should I just take it down? I mean really, I don't want to do anything bad like that. I could try to stay up and remove the stuff referring to him ... but I've been struggling to build context without using him as a concrete example. Edit: I'm re-editing it now. (I should be in bed, ug tired) 03:45 I think it is a better job now ... hopefully you find it more acceptable; I'm starting to become a bit incoherent myself and need to catch a wink. 04:25 Just finished another round of editing. I do really hope everything is better. (4:50 still going ... )

Nathandim 15y ago

Exactly this. To think that doctors can diagnose a person over the internet is already far stretched, since some health problems need examinations, tests and proper studying about the nature of the problem and the ones that they do are doing it by using specific websites and they emphasize how they cannot do a proper diagnosis but just interpret the symptoms - not talking about psychological issues exclusively here. But for members of community to point their finger saying "this guy has this, can't you tell?" is brutal. Just brutal. If you really care about a person's health (especially when it's psychological) you don't do this. Instead, you try to come in contact with him or family or at worst with some professional around his town and treat him with the dignity an ill human deserves to be treated. This feels like we're all discussing about him in the town square and when he comes by we'll just give him the stare while he walks around. How's that helpful? Cruel? It's sick. Mo matter how much "socially acceptable" it is, it doesn't make it less wrong.

kristopolous 15y ago
I'm working on an edit.

kiloaper 15y ago

>Very few people completely lack any self-awareness; if you know you have a health problem, whether mental or otherwise, it is your responsibility to seek help. It's a responsibility you owe yourself, your family and friends, and society. Clearly you've had the good luck to never have had to deal with any mental health problem ever. The problem with mental health problems is that when your mind isn't functioning properly, how can you be expected to diagnosis yourself and seek treatment? It's like expecting a broken robot to repair itself. For example, when depression robs you of all motivation and the very will to live, how can you be expected to recognize the symptoms and go out there and seek help?

AndyJPartridge 15y ago
>when depression robs you of all motivation and the very will to live, how can you be expected to recognize the symptoms and go out there and seek help? I, for one, didn't realise I'd become depressed. It took my partner and my best friend to take me to get diagnosed and treated. On reflection, it's frightening to think I didn't realise.
- jaryd 15y ago
  Amazing how common this is!
japhyr 15y ago
Also, when people do find effective treatment there is a tendency to feel they are healthy, and cease treatment. This results in an endless cycle of being symptomatic and not getting help, getting help and managing mental health issues, and letting go of the help that is making someone healthy.

lwhi 15y ago

With most things that can be seen as contentious, it's worth asking 'what good could come from this?'. In the case of this article, I think that people might be reminded to be more sympathetic when they encounter someone who is experiencing mental illness. However, the way a person actually relates to their own experiences while classed as mentally ill is a personal thing. Lack of understanding is probably the biggest barrier - and well meaning sympathy isn't always going to have a positive effect on someone's well-being. It might actual just compound the problem. I think there's an element of the freak-show here, because the guy who's the subject of the article is being used as 'exhibit a' in a discussion of what can manifest from mental illness. On the flip side - mental illness does seem to be an area of life that's rarely discussed openly. Rather than stand by and look at the wreckage - it's probably more constructive to think about what can be done to help tackle mental health issues more generally. http://www.mind.org.uk/ http://www.mind.org.uk/ is a UK-based charity who are doing good things in this area.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

tomp 15y ago

The problem with "mental illness" is that it is usually not really mental, just the symptoms are. The illness itself is caused by purely physiological stuff, like lack/excess of this or that hormone or other substance. In most cases, modern science is unable to help, and you most definitely cannot help yourself!

shin_lao 15y ago

Exactly. When talking about an ill person generally you just use the first name (more often not the real first name), and make sure it's not obvious who you are talking about. I've read a fair share of psychiatric books and they all have this "rule". The OP should at the very least edit out the name of the person and remove references to his work.