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Disinformation is the narrative constructed by crumbling authorities of mainstream media desperately trying to preserve their power. You might think like their

Disinformation is the narrative constructed by crumbling authorities of mainstream media desperately trying to preserve their power. You might think like their narrative is "think critically, and consider everything critically". But the actual message is, your fellow humans are stupid, they fall for misinformation and fake sources. Ignore all alternative sources of information and most importantly, do not trust your friends and people you know, instead assume they are stupid and when they contradict the authority, be sure to put up a firewall and stop the propagation of dangerous thoughts. Truth is always more powerful than lies. Don't underestimate your own reasoning capabilities, and if you do underestimate them, the most important thing to do is to train them. I'm not saying to argue against an anonymous bot, but if you meet in person, if your friends have non standard ideas, don't assume they are stupid and fell for misinformation. Not everyone on the other side is stupid, or heartless, or bad. They are trying to inject faults into various alternative information sources just to turn around and catch them and say "see? This podcaster is a conspiracy theorist and unreliable!". It's mainstream media which benefits the most from efficient fault and spam injection into alternative information sources, because it makes them relatively more trustworthy. And it is actually against the interests of alternative news sources to be caught in a lie because it is likely to erode their reputation. If you're confused by the whole disinformation phenomenon, ask the simple question, who benefits. And remember that the media's willingness to intentionally lie and deceive their readers is directly proportional to the cost to your reputation, and the likeliness of your readers to discover the truth.

bcrl 3y ago
Well, yesterday Youtube served me up an ad for an "AI" algorithmic trading service "only available to Canadians" and "backed by Elon Musk. It used "AI" generated audio and video of Musk to peddle an unregistered securities trading firm that tries to prey on the uninformed. That video is clearly disinformation / misinformation. There is zero chance that video would be played on a conventional broadcaster. Why? They have to be accountable for the content they put in front of viewers. Conventional broadcasters have to participate in advertising standards councils and answer to regulators. On the other hand, platforms are unaccountable and unwilling to act in the public interest. Profit trumps all. The average person has no idea how to record an ad that was just shown to them by a "platform". That video that was in the corner of the webpage that turns out to be scammy? Ooops, you scrolled too far or used the back button and it's now gone. There's a large swath of problems online that are clearly misinformation and / or disinformation. Nothing is going to improve on this front so long as "platforms" are wholly unaccountable to the general public. And we're running blindly forward into making this far, far worse before anything will change now that generative AI lowers the bar to produce bullshit that looks convincing on the first pass. Big tech disappoints me to no end.
- GoblinSlayer 3y ago
  >On the other hand, platforms are unaccountable and unwilling to act in the public interest. Broadcasters don't act in the public interest either, they act in owner's interest.
- machina_ex_deus 3y ago
  So you assume your fellow humans are stupid and will fall for this crap, and must be protected at all costs including the cost of regulation preventing speech? By the way, how's that scammer SBF doing? I heard he managed to scam even more money than that funny YouTube ad, and I think he was advertising on mainstream media too. Even got to lobby in Congress. This is still far from the leading mainstream narrative that "your fellow humans are stupid". By your anecdote I can learn that here we have another person who's capable of recognizing false information, therefore it isn't dangerous. Anyone who fell for disinformation is welcome to step in and contribute an anecdote to the opposite statistics so maybe I'll be convinced people really are guillible and need protecting. Somehow it's always other people who the speaker thinks are more stupid and will fall for something he sees as a scam.
  - bcrl 3y ago
    I have no expectation that everyone will fall for it, but I've seen my own elderly father get confused and drawn into scam ads. My irritation is that what little accountability in advertising that existed in the past is now gone, and that "platforms" are failing the general public by allowing these things to propagate. Put a button in the corner of the ad that says "report this", and get a human to check if the ad passes a smell test. If a platform can cancel accounts of random people for violating policies at random, they can put a small amount of effort into enforcing policies on advertisers.
    - machina_ex_deus 3y ago
      So now it's the elderly. I've seen them fall for phone scams much more commonly, they usually don't have the technical ability to use the internet. You're deflecting from the disinformation narrative into elderly scam. Which I agree is a problem, just a completely different one than the disinformation narrative presents.
synetic 3y ago
I think a great many people are actually stupid and easily lead astray. There are large numbers of people who won’t vaccinate their children (not talking about Covid vaccine). Such a person is either stupid or a victim of misinformation. Humans are easily persuadable. This is particularly true with a group of people echoing who feel slighted or are angry about some perceived injustice. The mob mentality is real and it makes its participants vulnerable to making bad decisions and going with the flow. We see this with the cult like devotion of Trump supporters. We see examples in consumerism. There was a time when people fought each other over a Cabbage Parch Doll. Our moments of lucid analysis of an issue or speech occur far less often than our moments of “going with the flow”.
- machina_ex_deus 3y ago
  And my general experience with anti vaxers is that they generally look into more resources and research and put much more thoughts into their decisions than a regular person. Which I generally view as a positive quality. I put much more value on the process by which a person reached his decisions than whether they were correct in one particular instance. Whether I agree with their final conclusion is irrelevant, I can't with straight face call a person who spent his time carefully considering his decisions less intelligent than a person who didn't spend a single moment to think about it. Even if they reached the wrong conclusion. It's actually hilarious that you call them mob mentality. Going with the herd automatically is the most mob mentality possible. Have you tried talking to Trump supporters before you assumed they are "cult" and "mob"? You're exactly the kind of person I directed my post at. You've been successfully fooled into thinking other people are stupid without even trying to understand them. And for the record, I think flat earthers are more intelligent than people who never even asked themselves how do we know that the earth is spherical. They are not intelligent because they couldn't understand the answer, but they are more intelligent than a person who never even asked the question. The people I consider more intelligent than flat earthers tried asking this question, looked for the solution and could understand basic geometry enough to understand why it is true. Anyone else isn't more intelligent, just more conformal and knowledgeable. In the case of knowing the earth is flat, it's such well known fact it's just pure conformity never asking why, and I don't value that at all. It's not an intelligent trait.
listenallyall 3y ago
I don't disagree but I'd offer an alternative reason for being: "disinformation" is the prism through which censorship becomes acceptable. People, as a whole, are still against censorship in its raw form, silencing people, burning books, etc. However once a book or video or idea is labeled "disinformation" it becomes dangerous, which means (according to the people doing the labeling) that NOT removing/eliminating it would be irresponsible or harmful.

bcrl 3y ago

Well, yesterday Youtube served me up an ad for an "AI" algorithmic trading service "only available to Canadians" and "backed by Elon Musk. It used "AI" generated audio and video of Musk to peddle an unregistered securities trading firm that tries to prey on the uninformed. That video is clearly disinformation / misinformation. There is zero chance that video would be played on a conventional broadcaster. Why? They have to be accountable for the content they put in front of viewers. Conventional broadcasters have to participate in advertising standards councils and answer to regulators. On the other hand, platforms are unaccountable and unwilling to act in the public interest. Profit trumps all. The average person has no idea how to record an ad that was just shown to them by a "platform". That video that was in the corner of the webpage that turns out to be scammy? Ooops, you scrolled too far or used the back button and it's now gone. There's a large swath of problems online that are clearly misinformation and / or disinformation. Nothing is going to improve on this front so long as "platforms" are wholly unaccountable to the general public. And we're running blindly forward into making this far, far worse before anything will change now that generative AI lowers the bar to produce bullshit that looks convincing on the first pass. Big tech disappoints me to no end.

GoblinSlayer 3y ago
>On the other hand, platforms are unaccountable and unwilling to act in the public interest. Broadcasters don't act in the public interest either, they act in owner's interest.
machina_ex_deus 3y ago
So you assume your fellow humans are stupid and will fall for this crap, and must be protected at all costs including the cost of regulation preventing speech? By the way, how's that scammer SBF doing? I heard he managed to scam even more money than that funny YouTube ad, and I think he was advertising on mainstream media too. Even got to lobby in Congress. This is still far from the leading mainstream narrative that "your fellow humans are stupid". By your anecdote I can learn that here we have another person who's capable of recognizing false information, therefore it isn't dangerous. Anyone who fell for disinformation is welcome to step in and contribute an anecdote to the opposite statistics so maybe I'll be convinced people really are guillible and need protecting. Somehow it's always other people who the speaker thinks are more stupid and will fall for something he sees as a scam.
- bcrl 3y ago
  I have no expectation that everyone will fall for it, but I've seen my own elderly father get confused and drawn into scam ads. My irritation is that what little accountability in advertising that existed in the past is now gone, and that "platforms" are failing the general public by allowing these things to propagate. Put a button in the corner of the ad that says "report this", and get a human to check if the ad passes a smell test. If a platform can cancel accounts of random people for violating policies at random, they can put a small amount of effort into enforcing policies on advertisers.
  - machina_ex_deus 3y ago
    So now it's the elderly. I've seen them fall for phone scams much more commonly, they usually don't have the technical ability to use the internet. You're deflecting from the disinformation narrative into elderly scam. Which I agree is a problem, just a completely different one than the disinformation narrative presents.

synetic 3y ago

I think a great many people are actually stupid and easily lead astray. There are large numbers of people who won’t vaccinate their children (not talking about Covid vaccine). Such a person is either stupid or a victim of misinformation. Humans are easily persuadable. This is particularly true with a group of people echoing who feel slighted or are angry about some perceived injustice. The mob mentality is real and it makes its participants vulnerable to making bad decisions and going with the flow. We see this with the cult like devotion of Trump supporters. We see examples in consumerism. There was a time when people fought each other over a Cabbage Parch Doll. Our moments of lucid analysis of an issue or speech occur far less often than our moments of “going with the flow”.

machina_ex_deus 3y ago
And my general experience with anti vaxers is that they generally look into more resources and research and put much more thoughts into their decisions than a regular person. Which I generally view as a positive quality. I put much more value on the process by which a person reached his decisions than whether they were correct in one particular instance. Whether I agree with their final conclusion is irrelevant, I can't with straight face call a person who spent his time carefully considering his decisions less intelligent than a person who didn't spend a single moment to think about it. Even if they reached the wrong conclusion. It's actually hilarious that you call them mob mentality. Going with the herd automatically is the most mob mentality possible. Have you tried talking to Trump supporters before you assumed they are "cult" and "mob"? You're exactly the kind of person I directed my post at. You've been successfully fooled into thinking other people are stupid without even trying to understand them. And for the record, I think flat earthers are more intelligent than people who never even asked themselves how do we know that the earth is spherical. They are not intelligent because they couldn't understand the answer, but they are more intelligent than a person who never even asked the question. The people I consider more intelligent than flat earthers tried asking this question, looked for the solution and could understand basic geometry enough to understand why it is true. Anyone else isn't more intelligent, just more conformal and knowledgeable. In the case of knowing the earth is flat, it's such well known fact it's just pure conformity never asking why, and I don't value that at all. It's not an intelligent trait.

listenallyall 3y ago

I don't disagree but I'd offer an alternative reason for being: "disinformation" is the prism through which censorship becomes acceptable. People, as a whole, are still against censorship in its raw form, silencing people, burning books, etc. However once a book or video or idea is labeled "disinformation" it becomes dangerous, which means (according to the people doing the labeling) that NOT removing/eliminating it would be irresponsible or harmful.