6 ms·

Breaking Good: How to synthesize Sudafed from crystal meth

78 points by brianl 15y ago

aaronbrethorst 15y ago
(parody) Edit: You'd have to ask the folks at Boing Boing. From the end of the article on BB: "* Note the name of the authors, and that of the journal. It's parody, folks."
- peteretep 15y ago
  What's it a parody of?
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    Real synthesis documents. Which, by the way, you should be really careful going looking for.
    - frisco 15y ago
      I don't think that's what it's parodying... Also, why would one need to be "really careful" looking up an organic synthesis of Sudafed?
      - ars 15y ago
        He means be careful looking up the synthesis of meth from Sudafed.
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
      - JonnieCache 15y ago
        There are a lot of... unusual chemistry papers out there which could lead to difficult questions being asked at certain borders I imagine. Although to be fair I guess every chemistry student goes though a phase of looking these things up when they find out they exist.
        dlss 15y ago
        What an odd sentiment. There's nothing illegal about looking that up, or knowing how people do it. Honestly, I don't think I've ever met a good chemist that hasn't looked it up -- the kind of ingenuity in synthesis that is born from not having access to a laboratory (or good precursors / solvents) is fascinating. Very MacGyver. Out of curiosity, what do you think happens if you look it up? How did you come by this information without having similar concerns? (Although I have heard of room 641A, I honestly don't know very much about this) Thanks edit: for the curious... http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth_faq.shtml http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth_faq.shtml
        JonnieCache 15y ago
        They find the pdf on your computer at the border, lock you in a room, shout at you for hours, tickle your prostate just for fun and then send you home? There have been multiple cases of licensed MDMA researchers being denied entry to the US for having such materials, or for having admitted that they took the drugs once. I wish I could find the link, maybe I'll be back with it later. Then there's this stuff: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810312 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810312 Obviously not exactly the same, but who can say where it's going next?
        dlss 15y ago
        Hmm. So while I admit you can find examples of people receiving such harassment, I don't think you can make the case that such events are common or likely the experience you will have. People generally get angry when they hear about stuff like your link. It's newsworthy for a reason (rare + outrageous). Government employees are people too, it's not like anyone acts deliberately oppressive. Besides, that cost benefit ratio sounds worth it. (very rare chance of harassment and molestation) vs (very real chance of learning something awesome) I guess I'm curious how much money you'd charge to store such pdfs on your hard drive forever -- more than $100? more than $1000? I'll do it for $10 :p BTW it sounds like you really should look up Room 641A -- this conversation and your IP were logged. Talking about evading security is probably way worse than taking about meth.
  - biot 15y ago
    It's not parody. It's satire.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
cypherpunks01 15y ago
Please use direct link instead: http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf
frisco 15y ago
I realize it's meant to be funny and the journal title is fake, but is the synthesis valid? I'd be curious to know if this is good organic chemistry in service of the joke or not.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  I can't say whether the synthesis is actually valid, but I did see a few rather exotic reagents were required, making this not even remotely something an amateur would be capable of doing. Butyl Lithium and "MoOPH" especially are rather specialized and rather dangerous materials, for example.
derrida 15y ago
It's a political hack, it's making the point that it is easier to synthesise pseudoephedrine by buying crystal meth (the reason pseudoephedrine is so heavily restricted) than it is to go out and buy pseudoephedrine. It's an effort to change the law. That's the 'hack'. Chemistry enthusiasts will have to judge if it has been successful on its claims about the method outlined or, rather, if the hack is in fact exploiting our expectations that journals generally say intelligent and correct stuff, so the claims made in this journal article are correct. If we are either deceived by it being correct and cheap chemistry, or if we believe the claims within the article, the hack works (it's intent being to change absurd legal controls surrounding pseudoephidrine, not necessarily to show how to synthesise pseudoephidrine). It's necessary for the hack to work, to change our beliefs. If it does this with the truth, all the nicer. This is a classic - even if the claims in the paper are bullshit. :-)
- DanBC 15y ago
  Aren't there clear links between availability the of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, and the availability of meth on the street? There's some greta charts somewhere showing drops in purity of meth (along with increased prices) against time, compared to measures taken to reduce the supply of pseudo-ephedrine. There's also some correlation with increased numbers of people seeking treatment. I'm carefully trying to avoid traditional drug arguments, but to make clear: I am generally in favour of legalisation of drugs.
  - frankydp 15y ago
    Drugs are like any industry I would guess, in that, economy of scale will eventually win the race by using industrial practices. Much like how cocaine went from high quality to low quality as demand skyrocketed and the scale of production was more important to producers than quality. But, as the industry scaled to the demand, the quality climbed due to better production practices. I guess my point is that meth's growth is probably the leading cause of any drop in purity as opposed too any action by the government to limit small distributors. As the big players in the industry scale their production the trend "should" reverse? Just opinion.
  - 15y ago

78 points by brianl 15y ago

(parody) Edit: You'd have to ask the folks at Boing Boing. From the end of the article on BB: "* Note the name of the authors, and that of the journal. It's parody, folks."

peteretep 15y ago
What's it a parody of?
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  Real synthesis documents. Which, by the way, you should be really careful going looking for.
  - frisco 15y ago
    I don't think that's what it's parodying... Also, why would one need to be "really careful" looking up an organic synthesis of Sudafed?
    - ars 15y ago
      He means be careful looking up the synthesis of meth from Sudafed.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
    - JonnieCache 15y ago
      There are a lot of... unusual chemistry papers out there which could lead to difficult questions being asked at certain borders I imagine. Although to be fair I guess every chemistry student goes though a phase of looking these things up when they find out they exist.
      - dlss 15y ago
        What an odd sentiment. There's nothing illegal about looking that up, or knowing how people do it. Honestly, I don't think I've ever met a good chemist that hasn't looked it up -- the kind of ingenuity in synthesis that is born from not having access to a laboratory (or good precursors / solvents) is fascinating. Very MacGyver. Out of curiosity, what do you think happens if you look it up? How did you come by this information without having similar concerns? (Although I have heard of room 641A, I honestly don't know very much about this) Thanks edit: for the curious... http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth_faq.shtml http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth_faq.shtml
        JonnieCache 15y ago
        They find the pdf on your computer at the border, lock you in a room, shout at you for hours, tickle your prostate just for fun and then send you home? There have been multiple cases of licensed MDMA researchers being denied entry to the US for having such materials, or for having admitted that they took the drugs once. I wish I could find the link, maybe I'll be back with it later. Then there's this stuff: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810312 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810312 Obviously not exactly the same, but who can say where it's going next?
        dlss 15y ago
        Hmm. So while I admit you can find examples of people receiving such harassment, I don't think you can make the case that such events are common or likely the experience you will have. People generally get angry when they hear about stuff like your link. It's newsworthy for a reason (rare + outrageous). Government employees are people too, it's not like anyone acts deliberately oppressive. Besides, that cost benefit ratio sounds worth it. (very rare chance of harassment and molestation) vs (very real chance of learning something awesome) I guess I'm curious how much money you'd charge to store such pdfs on your hard drive forever -- more than $100? more than $1000? I'll do it for $10 :p BTW it sounds like you really should look up Room 641A -- this conversation and your IP were logged. Talking about evading security is probably way worse than taking about meth.
- biot 15y ago
  It's not parody. It's satire.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

cypherpunks01 15y ago

Please use direct link instead: http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf

frisco 15y ago

I realize it's meant to be funny and the journal title is fake, but is the synthesis valid? I'd be curious to know if this is good organic chemistry in service of the joke or not.

InclinedPlane 15y ago
I can't say whether the synthesis is actually valid, but I did see a few rather exotic reagents were required, making this not even remotely something an amateur would be capable of doing. Butyl Lithium and "MoOPH" especially are rather specialized and rather dangerous materials, for example.

derrida 15y ago

It's a political hack, it's making the point that it is easier to synthesise pseudoephedrine by buying crystal meth (the reason pseudoephedrine is so heavily restricted) than it is to go out and buy pseudoephedrine. It's an effort to change the law. That's the 'hack'. Chemistry enthusiasts will have to judge if it has been successful on its claims about the method outlined or, rather, if the hack is in fact exploiting our expectations that journals generally say intelligent and correct stuff, so the claims made in this journal article are correct. If we are either deceived by it being correct and cheap chemistry, or if we believe the claims within the article, the hack works (it's intent being to change absurd legal controls surrounding pseudoephidrine, not necessarily to show how to synthesise pseudoephidrine). It's necessary for the hack to work, to change our beliefs. If it does this with the truth, all the nicer. This is a classic - even if the claims in the paper are bullshit. :-)

DanBC 15y ago
Aren't there clear links between availability the of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, and the availability of meth on the street? There's some greta charts somewhere showing drops in purity of meth (along with increased prices) against time, compared to measures taken to reduce the supply of pseudo-ephedrine. There's also some correlation with increased numbers of people seeking treatment. I'm carefully trying to avoid traditional drug arguments, but to make clear: I am generally in favour of legalisation of drugs.
- frankydp 15y ago
  Drugs are like any industry I would guess, in that, economy of scale will eventually win the race by using industrial practices. Much like how cocaine went from high quality to low quality as demand skyrocketed and the scale of production was more important to producers than quality. But, as the industry scaled to the demand, the quality climbed due to better production practices. I guess my point is that meth's growth is probably the leading cause of any drop in purity as opposed too any action by the government to limit small distributors. As the big players in the industry scale their production the trend "should" reverse? Just opinion.
- 15y ago