4 ms·

I’m in basically the first cohort to get fully fledged (web browsing, YouTube, social media, games, porn) unmonitored smartphone access at those ages and I thin

I’m in basically the first cohort to get fully fledged (web browsing, YouTube, social media, games, porn) unmonitored smartphone access at those ages and I think it did not mess me up much if at all. I was living in isolated suburbia so it’s not like playing outside was an option anyway. If those are a problem, it’s more likely to be from getting access at a younger age IMO. I have a theory that it’s primarily the increasing use of video as a medium that is damaging. Not only does video prevent building literacy skills, it also tends to be used to deliver content that leads to parasocial relationships and celebrity worship which is frankly concerning IME.

smogcutter 3y ago
> I was living in isolated suburbia so it’s not like playing outside was an option anyway. Obviously not really addressing your childhood in particular, but this is insane to me. Isn’t playing outside the whole point of moving to the suburbs? I grew up in Brooklyn and we played outside all day. I have a hard time seeing how more space, more grass, and less traffic makes that not really an option. Maybe this is a generational thing?
- opportune 3y ago
  I think it’s a generational thing for sure. I guess when I say suburbia I mean something kind of in between culdesac master-planned communities (which are easier to play in) and an actual urban environment. There are too many roads with too many cars, and it’s not the 70s anymore, so proportionately fewer houses have kids at all, and if they do they’re not likely to be your school mates. Plus, stranger danger came and changed everything. I’m not saying no teenagers run around outside anymore but among middle class teens it’s a lot less common than it was - life is more like being shuttled to an fro extracurriculars or friends’ places by your parents’ car.
no_wizard 3y ago
I know we're talking about kids here, but as an adult, I'm not a video learner. I need written material (with good examples, usually) to really learn something. I need to read to understand and then apply and be able to check what I'm doing against a crop of known good implementations. The trend in learning, like Frontend Masters, while amazing for what it is, its all video, and I'm finding people are putting out more and more video to teach topics, and less and less written works to teach stuff, and I'm getting more and more frustrated at this, as it takes me longer to digest videos than written materials. I don't know how anyone learns to become a developer from just watching videos and doing exercises, my pace would be that of a snail. And yes, I get that everyone learns differently, but us who learn best from reading are being left out in the cold.
- opportune 3y ago
  Oh, completely agree. Same with podcasts honestly. I can consume the content way faster, search and skim more easily, determine relevancy in a flash with text vs video. It’s why I have no interest in TikTok and never developed the YouTube addiction that seems so common among tweens. Bringing it back to kids, I realized you could draw some parallels to TV. The thing about TV is that you had much fewer choices in what to watch and it was harder to “hide” from your parents compared to smartphone videos - if your parents thought something was stupid they could just overhear it and make you turn it off more easily than the smartphone equivalent. Also, with TV the branding is usually not done on the e-celeb/individual level, it’s more show-based branding, so it’s a little less tilted towards parasocial content. There are a few things driving this trend towards video I think, one is that a lot of consumers now are less literate/educated than would be on the internet in the past, as well as younger with poorer reading skills - video has relatively more demand vs text. The other is that videos are easier to monetize and from what I understand have higher paying ads.
  - no_wizard 3y ago
    I'd also argue to some degree, that video is easier to produce well vs the written word. Its a lot harder to become a block buster author than it is to become a block buster video feed producer, in my observation. You're right the continuing trend of less and less "serious" readers continues unabated as it has for decades
- arp242 3y ago
  This has been an on-going (escalating) trend for a while; over 20 years ago the short-lived sketch show Bruiser already did a parody of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb_dIsnDJGk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb_dIsnDJGk And it pretty much matches my experience in school at the time. You could also see this with school books, where the older books were "serious" and the newer ones "fun". I also find it rather funny that the "Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong"[1] that was mentioned in another thread is only available as a podcast, and isn't a written story (there's a transcript, but it's very hard to follow). [1]: https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/ https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/
rcme 3y ago
I think you should provide your age as a reference. As smartphones have proliferated, companies have gotten better at making their products more addictive. So even if you had unfettered smartphone access at 13, you probably weren't watching TikTok.
- opportune 3y ago
  I’m 27. 12 years old when the iPhone 3G came out (15 years ago… doesn’t that make you feel old?). No TikTok. But YouTube did have a recommendation engine, and Facebook was a thing.
  - max51 3y ago
    I am a few years older than you and also had unlimited access to the internet. The internet back in 2005 - 2013 was nothing like it is today. It was far less addictive, it was more anonymous, and most of your friends weren't addicted to it as much. If we take facebook for example. We did have it when I was in high school but it was far less addictive. It was invite-only, no dark patterns, no ads, no games, no suggested posts, no celebrities, no "influencers", no political campaigns, no activism, no clickbait articles to create outrage. There was also no family member on it and only your "real" friends would see your posts. When we posted something stupid, we knew that only our classmates and close friends would read it, not our parents/teachers/boss/journalists/neighbor/etc.

smogcutter 3y ago

> I was living in isolated suburbia so it’s not like playing outside was an option anyway. Obviously not really addressing your childhood in particular, but this is insane to me. Isn’t playing outside the whole point of moving to the suburbs? I grew up in Brooklyn and we played outside all day. I have a hard time seeing how more space, more grass, and less traffic makes that not really an option. Maybe this is a generational thing?

opportune 3y ago
I think it’s a generational thing for sure. I guess when I say suburbia I mean something kind of in between culdesac master-planned communities (which are easier to play in) and an actual urban environment. There are too many roads with too many cars, and it’s not the 70s anymore, so proportionately fewer houses have kids at all, and if they do they’re not likely to be your school mates. Plus, stranger danger came and changed everything. I’m not saying no teenagers run around outside anymore but among middle class teens it’s a lot less common than it was - life is more like being shuttled to an fro extracurriculars or friends’ places by your parents’ car.

no_wizard 3y ago

I know we're talking about kids here, but as an adult, I'm not a video learner. I need written material (with good examples, usually) to really learn something. I need to read to understand and then apply and be able to check what I'm doing against a crop of known good implementations. The trend in learning, like Frontend Masters, while amazing for what it is, its all video, and I'm finding people are putting out more and more video to teach topics, and less and less written works to teach stuff, and I'm getting more and more frustrated at this, as it takes me longer to digest videos than written materials. I don't know how anyone learns to become a developer from just watching videos and doing exercises, my pace would be that of a snail. And yes, I get that everyone learns differently, but us who learn best from reading are being left out in the cold.

opportune 3y ago
Oh, completely agree. Same with podcasts honestly. I can consume the content way faster, search and skim more easily, determine relevancy in a flash with text vs video. It’s why I have no interest in TikTok and never developed the YouTube addiction that seems so common among tweens. Bringing it back to kids, I realized you could draw some parallels to TV. The thing about TV is that you had much fewer choices in what to watch and it was harder to “hide” from your parents compared to smartphone videos - if your parents thought something was stupid they could just overhear it and make you turn it off more easily than the smartphone equivalent. Also, with TV the branding is usually not done on the e-celeb/individual level, it’s more show-based branding, so it’s a little less tilted towards parasocial content. There are a few things driving this trend towards video I think, one is that a lot of consumers now are less literate/educated than would be on the internet in the past, as well as younger with poorer reading skills - video has relatively more demand vs text. The other is that videos are easier to monetize and from what I understand have higher paying ads.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  I'd also argue to some degree, that video is easier to produce well vs the written word. Its a lot harder to become a block buster author than it is to become a block buster video feed producer, in my observation. You're right the continuing trend of less and less "serious" readers continues unabated as it has for decades
arp242 3y ago
This has been an on-going (escalating) trend for a while; over 20 years ago the short-lived sketch show Bruiser already did a parody of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb_dIsnDJGk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb_dIsnDJGk And it pretty much matches my experience in school at the time. You could also see this with school books, where the older books were "serious" and the newer ones "fun". I also find it rather funny that the "Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong"[1] that was mentioned in another thread is only available as a podcast, and isn't a written story (there's a transcript, but it's very hard to follow). [1]: https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/ https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/

rcme 3y ago

I think you should provide your age as a reference. As smartphones have proliferated, companies have gotten better at making their products more addictive. So even if you had unfettered smartphone access at 13, you probably weren't watching TikTok.

opportune 3y ago
I’m 27. 12 years old when the iPhone 3G came out (15 years ago… doesn’t that make you feel old?). No TikTok. But YouTube did have a recommendation engine, and Facebook was a thing.
- max51 3y ago
  I am a few years older than you and also had unlimited access to the internet. The internet back in 2005 - 2013 was nothing like it is today. It was far less addictive, it was more anonymous, and most of your friends weren't addicted to it as much. If we take facebook for example. We did have it when I was in high school but it was far less addictive. It was invite-only, no dark patterns, no ads, no games, no suggested posts, no celebrities, no "influencers", no political campaigns, no activism, no clickbait articles to create outrage. There was also no family member on it and only your "real" friends would see your posts. When we posted something stupid, we knew that only our classmates and close friends would read it, not our parents/teachers/boss/journalists/neighbor/etc.