4 ms·

I ran a design team, and many really struggled with Sketch -> Figma transition, and took a long time. I welcome many of the new features. It's great for desig

by pcurve 3y ago

I ran a design team, and many really struggled with Sketch -> Figma transition, and took a long time. I welcome many of the new features. It's great for designers who are more technically oriented, though enterable input fields would be nice. I do wonder how non-technical designers are going to feel. The learning curve is definitely going higher. I'm worried about the rather pricey per / seat cost. There are far more developers than engineers at most organizations, and this is really going to hurt the licensing cost. Definitely Adobe bean counters flexing its muscle.

jozzy-james 3y ago
> I do wonder how non-technical designers are going to feel. The learning curve is definitely going higher. how would this impact them? just use figma as usual i would assume looking forward to giving this a spin, our design team tends to go the iterative artboard style with everything...so sussing out values can be a pain
- pcurve 3y ago
  "how would this impact them? just use figma as usual i would assume" Since designers share files, whether at the same time, or at later date, if you have someone on the team who is fully taking advantage of all the features, like the new variables, conditional logics, etc.., and you're not quite up to speed, you may not be able to do your job effectively or may mess up what others have done. Understanding abstractions / reference / inheritance is a skill that developers take for granted. But for non-technical folks, it takes time. Many struggle for a very long time.
  - butlerm 3y ago
    Designing a user interface of all things is a technical job, and non-technical folks who are asked to do that should probably study those things to do their jobs well.
    - pcurve 3y ago
      It definitely used to be, especially back in the VB / fat-client app days. I sometimes miss it. Things used to be simpler ;-)
dsgnr 3y ago
Right now I can let devs with free accounts view files with the inspect tab and leave comments. If it works like that it shouldnt increase costs.
- Xt-6 3y ago
  It will require a license https://twitter.com/Chris_Smeder/status/1671566245190303744 https://twitter.com/Chris_Smeder/status/1671566245190303744
  - minorninth 3y ago
    If I understand correctly dev mode access is $25/month instead of $45/month for a designer. That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. They're not taking away anything from free mode.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
forkbomb123 3y ago
I doubt it's adobe flexing its muscle, afaik, the DOJ is still looking into the Adobe/Figma merger. Currently Figma and Adobe are operating independently.
- steveklabnik 3y ago
  It's US, British, and EU antitrust regulators, yes.
- mortenjorck 3y ago
  One under-appreciated effect of the announcement last year has been the attention and resources that have been directed toward Figma's upstart, open-source competitor Penpot. I tried Penpot back in the fall, and while it was impressive for an open-source tool, I definitely didn't see it challenging Figma anytime soon. Fast-forward nine months, and Penpot has a boatload of new features as well as its own conference coming up in a few days. I tried it again recently, and it had come much further than I expected: not only have they implemented auto-layout (Figma's original killer feature, in my view), but with the added benefit of wrapping auto-layouts. They even announced a new roadmap item of grid auto-layout. I loaded up a tutorial file and my enthusiasm was dampened a bit seeing how a complex document impacted performance – Penpot still has a long ways to go to match Figma there – but as a viable Figma competitor, I think Penpot might actually have a chance now. It's telling that even as Figma races ahead with this new release, there is one feature (auto-layout wrap) that Penpot got to first. The funny thing would be if Penpot's rise, spurred by the threat of Adobe dominance, actually results in regulators giving Adobe the green light to complete its acquisition of Figma. Still, if this market becomes a healthy competition like Blender / Maya, everyone will win.
  - pcurve 3y ago
    I love Penpot!!! They had Wrap before Figma. They have Flex and Grid! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VchMDD0PrZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VchMDD0PrZE
riedel 3y ago
> though enterable input fields would be nice. So funny you say this. I could actually not believe that you really need to use another tool like protopie on top of figma if you need that simple functionality eg. for a mock-up.
- pcurve 3y ago
  And protopie is taking full advantage of it by charging hefty premium. I do believe Figma will implement it at some point.
jononomo 3y ago
How do you differentiate between a developer and an engineer?
- samstave 3y ago
  Networking. Send the ENG a SYN packet, and if they ACK They are an engineer... if they /dev/null your packet, its a DEV.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  Fairly sure they mistyped, and "engineers" should be "designers". Otherwise that is indeed a very confusing statement. There's usually multiple developers/engineers for every designer on a team, so bringing them in to the product with features that require full privileges would certainly be a lucrative move for Figma.
  - pcurve 3y ago
    Yup, I meant to say there are more engineers than designers. Figma was great because we didn't have to worry about seat count cost for engineers.
dahwolf 3y ago
I know quite a lot of non-technical designers and many aren't too happy about what one might call design engineering. Design systems, tokens, modules, over the top consistency/reuse, the programmatic approach to design is experienced by some as a major buzzkill.
- pcurve 3y ago
  One of the lead designers on my team called Figma "production tool" when I rolled it out to the org a few years ago (and replaced Sketch) She eventually came around, but these latest features may push her over the edge. I kind of feel bad. :-S It would've been nice if they'd incorporated more design focused features: > Improved and more intuitive drawing tool. Bezier experience in Figma is horrendous > Keyframes
- Hermitian909 3y ago
  As an engineer at a large company whose moonlighted as a designer it's felt like a huge win. It's now way easier to both stop designers from adding one-off design and interaction patterns that confuse users and to write truly reusable components that allow us to iterate faster as a company while maintaining a high level of visual consistency and polish. That's a big challenge once you start hitting org sizes in the hundreds or thousands.
  - dahwolf 3y ago
    No need to convince me of that, I'm an engineer. But I still empathize with those designers. It's mechanized design which to some feel like a prison for their creativity. Even more so when all designs start to look the same across companies, and then there's AI design still to come. What you emphasize, speed/productivity, is indeed the credo of our world, but that doesn't necessarily align with the goal of design. Take Apple, they don't seem to care about speed or continuous delivery at all, yet are widely celebrated for design excellence. Likewise, "consistency" does not mean you found the optimal design. Even Google admitted that Material Design was a poor choice for some of their (internal) products and couldn't make it fit.
whywhywhywhy 3y ago
Would have won more advocates with free dev mode than charging half price for someone who can’t edit files to get data from the files. Beginning of the end, and I say that as a previously huge Figma advocate. Laying low on the cost charts would benefit you more than rinsing us and getting questioned “do we need that?”
whywhywhywhy 3y ago
Product designers all learn CAD, some learn DFM. Time to step up and understand the medium your work is implemented in.

by pcurve 3y ago

jozzy-james 3y ago

> I do wonder how non-technical designers are going to feel. The learning curve is definitely going higher. how would this impact them? just use figma as usual i would assume looking forward to giving this a spin, our design team tends to go the iterative artboard style with everything...so sussing out values can be a pain

pcurve 3y ago
"how would this impact them? just use figma as usual i would assume" Since designers share files, whether at the same time, or at later date, if you have someone on the team who is fully taking advantage of all the features, like the new variables, conditional logics, etc.., and you're not quite up to speed, you may not be able to do your job effectively or may mess up what others have done. Understanding abstractions / reference / inheritance is a skill that developers take for granted. But for non-technical folks, it takes time. Many struggle for a very long time.
- butlerm 3y ago
  Designing a user interface of all things is a technical job, and non-technical folks who are asked to do that should probably study those things to do their jobs well.
  - pcurve 3y ago
    It definitely used to be, especially back in the VB / fat-client app days. I sometimes miss it. Things used to be simpler ;-)

dsgnr 3y ago

Right now I can let devs with free accounts view files with the inspect tab and leave comments. If it works like that it shouldnt increase costs.

Xt-6 3y ago
It will require a license https://twitter.com/Chris_Smeder/status/1671566245190303744 https://twitter.com/Chris_Smeder/status/1671566245190303744
- minorninth 3y ago
  If I understand correctly dev mode access is $25/month instead of $45/month for a designer. That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. They're not taking away anything from free mode.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

forkbomb123 3y ago

I doubt it's adobe flexing its muscle, afaik, the DOJ is still looking into the Adobe/Figma merger. Currently Figma and Adobe are operating independently.

steveklabnik 3y ago
It's US, British, and EU antitrust regulators, yes.
mortenjorck 3y ago
One under-appreciated effect of the announcement last year has been the attention and resources that have been directed toward Figma's upstart, open-source competitor Penpot. I tried Penpot back in the fall, and while it was impressive for an open-source tool, I definitely didn't see it challenging Figma anytime soon. Fast-forward nine months, and Penpot has a boatload of new features as well as its own conference coming up in a few days. I tried it again recently, and it had come much further than I expected: not only have they implemented auto-layout (Figma's original killer feature, in my view), but with the added benefit of wrapping auto-layouts. They even announced a new roadmap item of grid auto-layout. I loaded up a tutorial file and my enthusiasm was dampened a bit seeing how a complex document impacted performance – Penpot still has a long ways to go to match Figma there – but as a viable Figma competitor, I think Penpot might actually have a chance now. It's telling that even as Figma races ahead with this new release, there is one feature (auto-layout wrap) that Penpot got to first. The funny thing would be if Penpot's rise, spurred by the threat of Adobe dominance, actually results in regulators giving Adobe the green light to complete its acquisition of Figma. Still, if this market becomes a healthy competition like Blender / Maya, everyone will win.
- pcurve 3y ago
  I love Penpot!!! They had Wrap before Figma. They have Flex and Grid! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VchMDD0PrZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VchMDD0PrZE

riedel 3y ago

> though enterable input fields would be nice. So funny you say this. I could actually not believe that you really need to use another tool like protopie on top of figma if you need that simple functionality eg. for a mock-up.

pcurve 3y ago
And protopie is taking full advantage of it by charging hefty premium. I do believe Figma will implement it at some point.

jononomo 3y ago

How do you differentiate between a developer and an engineer?

samstave 3y ago
Networking. Send the ENG a SYN packet, and if they ACK They are an engineer... if they /dev/null your packet, its a DEV.
karaterobot 3y ago
Fairly sure they mistyped, and "engineers" should be "designers". Otherwise that is indeed a very confusing statement. There's usually multiple developers/engineers for every designer on a team, so bringing them in to the product with features that require full privileges would certainly be a lucrative move for Figma.
- pcurve 3y ago
  Yup, I meant to say there are more engineers than designers. Figma was great because we didn't have to worry about seat count cost for engineers.

dahwolf 3y ago

I know quite a lot of non-technical designers and many aren't too happy about what one might call design engineering. Design systems, tokens, modules, over the top consistency/reuse, the programmatic approach to design is experienced by some as a major buzzkill.

pcurve 3y ago
One of the lead designers on my team called Figma "production tool" when I rolled it out to the org a few years ago (and replaced Sketch) She eventually came around, but these latest features may push her over the edge. I kind of feel bad. :-S It would've been nice if they'd incorporated more design focused features: > Improved and more intuitive drawing tool. Bezier experience in Figma is horrendous > Keyframes
Hermitian909 3y ago
As an engineer at a large company whose moonlighted as a designer it's felt like a huge win. It's now way easier to both stop designers from adding one-off design and interaction patterns that confuse users and to write truly reusable components that allow us to iterate faster as a company while maintaining a high level of visual consistency and polish. That's a big challenge once you start hitting org sizes in the hundreds or thousands.
- dahwolf 3y ago
  No need to convince me of that, I'm an engineer. But I still empathize with those designers. It's mechanized design which to some feel like a prison for their creativity. Even more so when all designs start to look the same across companies, and then there's AI design still to come. What you emphasize, speed/productivity, is indeed the credo of our world, but that doesn't necessarily align with the goal of design. Take Apple, they don't seem to care about speed or continuous delivery at all, yet are widely celebrated for design excellence. Likewise, "consistency" does not mean you found the optimal design. Even Google admitted that Material Design was a poor choice for some of their (internal) products and couldn't make it fit.

whywhywhywhy 3y ago

Would have won more advocates with free dev mode than charging half price for someone who can’t edit files to get data from the files. Beginning of the end, and I say that as a previously huge Figma advocate. Laying low on the cost charts would benefit you more than rinsing us and getting questioned “do we need that?”

whywhywhywhy 3y ago

Product designers all learn CAD, some learn DFM. Time to step up and understand the medium your work is implemented in.