4 ms·

When I visited SA and Johannesburg in Jan 2020 it seemed dangerous but alive and turning. From everything I've heard of SA the current political situation is tr

by loufe 3y ago

When I visited SA and Johannesburg in Jan 2020 it seemed dangerous but alive and turning. From everything I've heard of SA the current political situation is tricky. I was told that the ANC earned "lifetime loyalty" from many as they were the party of Nelson Mandela and ended Apartheid. The problem, as I was told, is this unconditional loyalty has allowed the party to rot thoroughly and so the democratic process is simply unable to do its job. I'm sure that's one aspect of many, but what are the other factors? There is still massive mining potential, but nobody wants to invest given the state of affairs. There is still huge agricultural potential, but again outsiders don't want to invest given the threat of land appropriation for reparations, and those given the land are (again, from what I was told) more often than not poor stewards of it. SA is a truly beautiful and complicated place, I really hope they find their way out of this crisis.

mrguyorama 3y ago
>I'm sure that's one aspect of many, but what are the other factors? You really don't need any more factors than Arpatheid put the country in a bad place and a government that has no interest in fixing anything will not fix that.
- tim333 3y ago
  Things actually worked quite well under the white government and black africans used to immigrate a fair bit from neighbouring countries as things worked better in SA. Now SA is becoming a bit more like the neighbours like Zimbabwe, for better or worse.
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  I'm not trying to justify racism or oppression, but I had a Zulu friend who told me that he preferred it under apartheid. Anecdotal I know, but he said that the main thing was he couldn't go to certain places without a work permit. There was little corruption and the place was well maintained. He said now nobody is free, you have to bribe someone to accomplish anything, the government still abuses everyone but the only difference is they aren't white people. He's a political refugee now fleeing political violence. These things are very complicated. I dont think ZA or any society should be under apartheid. They could have a popular government and work well, but for some reason they haven't accomplished that. What has to happen I don't know, but I do know that the racists use it as an example to agitate for apartheid again and eventually people are going to get tired of it and attempt to resolve the problems in some way. Ignoring them or simply blaming them on apartheid will only ensure that the wrong solutions are the ones that get implemented. Nobody is willing to have an honest discussion about these problems, they just scapegoat their political opponents, and this is what will prevent a proper solution to anything.

by loufe 3y ago

mrguyorama 3y ago

>I'm sure that's one aspect of many, but what are the other factors? You really don't need any more factors than Arpatheid put the country in a bad place and a government that has no interest in fixing anything will not fix that.

tim333 3y ago
Things actually worked quite well under the white government and black africans used to immigrate a fair bit from neighbouring countries as things worked better in SA. Now SA is becoming a bit more like the neighbours like Zimbabwe, for better or worse.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
I'm not trying to justify racism or oppression, but I had a Zulu friend who told me that he preferred it under apartheid. Anecdotal I know, but he said that the main thing was he couldn't go to certain places without a work permit. There was little corruption and the place was well maintained. He said now nobody is free, you have to bribe someone to accomplish anything, the government still abuses everyone but the only difference is they aren't white people. He's a political refugee now fleeing political violence. These things are very complicated. I dont think ZA or any society should be under apartheid. They could have a popular government and work well, but for some reason they haven't accomplished that. What has to happen I don't know, but I do know that the racists use it as an example to agitate for apartheid again and eventually people are going to get tired of it and attempt to resolve the problems in some way. Ignoring them or simply blaming them on apartheid will only ensure that the wrong solutions are the ones that get implemented. Nobody is willing to have an honest discussion about these problems, they just scapegoat their political opponents, and this is what will prevent a proper solution to anything.