4 ms·

The down voters just proved your point.

by electriclove 3y ago

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
No, the downvotes are for vagueposting. If you have a point, state it.
- dismalsci3ntist 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - pc86 3y ago
    What the hell does the Overton Window have to do with corruption? Corruption isn't limited to one political party, and I'm willing to bet 95% of the people reading this have no idea how to even apply the Overton Window to South African politics. The only thing I can take from this is that the GP meant "yeah we all know Africans are corrupt, DUH, but we can't say it because of political correctness." I don't know that that's what he meant, but when you're like "well we could discuss the root of this but it's recently become socially unacceptable to do so" of course people are going to assume the worst thing possible.
- HideousKojima 3y ago
  I don't know enough about South Africa to comment, but I can confidently say that in Zimbabwe the black citizens of the country now have less economic prosperity and less political freedom/equality than they had under the Rhodesian government. Rhodesia never had any racial requirements for voting/representation, at least not until the British insisted on special representitives being created for the black population as a condition of independence (source: Ian Smith's memoirs). They had educational and income requirements in order to vote, and were actively building more schools in majority black areas in order to increase the ability of black citizens to vote (and to have a better education/life in general).
feoren 3y ago
His post is basically "we all know why this is happening, we just can't say it. You know what I mean. Wink wink. Nudge nudge." First of all, as an outsider, no, I don't know why it's happening. Secondly, the way it's carefully couched to avoid stating an actual reason, appealing to how they're "not allowed to say it", makes it sound like the real thing they want to say is something over-simplistic and extremely bigoted like "It's because of all the Blacks." So I'll leave my downvote, thank you.
- olah_1 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - zug_zug 3y ago
    The answer is never "blacks" that's just not an actionable thing. If you think crime then the problem then you can come up with suggestions to improve things (policing perhaps? Gun control? reducing poverty?), those improvements really have nothing to do with the skin color of anyone though, just a distraction.
  - feoren 3y ago
    > you ban the questions I'm not a moderator -- I'm not banning anything. You literally stated no reason. You asked no question. Why are you telling me that I can't handle the question when you haven't even hinted at what the real question is? And if the question you think we should be asking is "Is it because of all the Blacks?" then the reason that's not taken seriously is because it's (a) obviously false and (b) obviously asked in bad faith. Why aren't we allowed to bring up the possibility that it's because of the world cabal of Pashtun lizard-humans using their space laser to destroy society so we don't figure out the dark secret that the Earth is actually toroidal!?
  - happytoexplain 3y ago
    >This proves my point. This is a common fallacious defense. You expressed an opinion about a particular example of dishonest criticism, and then were criticized. There is no "proof" that the latter criticism is also dishonest. It's OK to criticize an opinion, even if that opinion happens to be about criticism. Also, it's hard not to point out: "Just asking questions" is such a common bad-faith tactic in the vein of "I'm not saying that it's X, but it's X" that it has actually become a meme/joke. It's absolutely valid, assuming honesty! But as a phrase it has no legs.

The down voters just proved your point.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

No, the downvotes are for vagueposting. If you have a point, state it.

dismalsci3ntist 3y ago
[flagged]
- pc86 3y ago
  What the hell does the Overton Window have to do with corruption? Corruption isn't limited to one political party, and I'm willing to bet 95% of the people reading this have no idea how to even apply the Overton Window to South African politics. The only thing I can take from this is that the GP meant "yeah we all know Africans are corrupt, DUH, but we can't say it because of political correctness." I don't know that that's what he meant, but when you're like "well we could discuss the root of this but it's recently become socially unacceptable to do so" of course people are going to assume the worst thing possible.
HideousKojima 3y ago
I don't know enough about South Africa to comment, but I can confidently say that in Zimbabwe the black citizens of the country now have less economic prosperity and less political freedom/equality than they had under the Rhodesian government. Rhodesia never had any racial requirements for voting/representation, at least not until the British insisted on special representitives being created for the black population as a condition of independence (source: Ian Smith's memoirs). They had educational and income requirements in order to vote, and were actively building more schools in majority black areas in order to increase the ability of black citizens to vote (and to have a better education/life in general).

feoren 3y ago

His post is basically "we all know why this is happening, we just can't say it. You know what I mean. Wink wink. Nudge nudge." First of all, as an outsider, no, I don't know why it's happening. Secondly, the way it's carefully couched to avoid stating an actual reason, appealing to how they're "not allowed to say it", makes it sound like the real thing they want to say is something over-simplistic and extremely bigoted like "It's because of all the Blacks." So I'll leave my downvote, thank you.

olah_1 3y ago
[flagged]
- zug_zug 3y ago
  The answer is never "blacks" that's just not an actionable thing. If you think crime then the problem then you can come up with suggestions to improve things (policing perhaps? Gun control? reducing poverty?), those improvements really have nothing to do with the skin color of anyone though, just a distraction.
- feoren 3y ago
  > you ban the questions I'm not a moderator -- I'm not banning anything. You literally stated no reason. You asked no question. Why are you telling me that I can't handle the question when you haven't even hinted at what the real question is? And if the question you think we should be asking is "Is it because of all the Blacks?" then the reason that's not taken seriously is because it's (a) obviously false and (b) obviously asked in bad faith. Why aren't we allowed to bring up the possibility that it's because of the world cabal of Pashtun lizard-humans using their space laser to destroy society so we don't figure out the dark secret that the Earth is actually toroidal!?
- happytoexplain 3y ago
  >This proves my point. This is a common fallacious defense. You expressed an opinion about a particular example of dishonest criticism, and then were criticized. There is no "proof" that the latter criticism is also dishonest. It's OK to criticize an opinion, even if that opinion happens to be about criticism. Also, it's hard not to point out: "Just asking questions" is such a common bad-faith tactic in the vein of "I'm not saying that it's X, but it's X" that it has actually become a meme/joke. It's absolutely valid, assuming honesty! But as a phrase it has no legs.