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I've always wondered if paying important government officials more would help. A supreme court justice makes less than many run-of-the-mill doctors, and is an e

I've always wondered if paying important government officials more would help. A supreme court justice makes less than many run-of-the-mill doctors, and is an extremely consequential person who could probably be making several multiples of what they make in the private sector. I'd guess that if there were somehow market forces at play, the salaries of these kinds of jobs would be a lot higher and maybe we'd get better people and less temptation for corruption.

bmitc 3y ago
It isn't market dynamics that creates this corruption.
- outlace 3y ago
  Well, I found this: https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/higher-government-wages-may-reduce-corruption https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/higher-government-wages-may-r... GPT4 summary: "Research suggests that higher government wages can reduce corruption, particularly in poorer countries. However, as a country's income per capita increases, this method becomes less effective, leading to a need for other measures such as improving rule of law, transparency, and better mechanisms for detecting and punishing corruption."
  - bmitc 3y ago
    I just don't think this is mometarily driven corruption. It's corruption of the purest form, and these people crave power, influence, and acceptance amongst the so-called elite. I'm sure money is a part of it, but I don't see how paying depraved people more makes the corruption go away. The main way to make it happen is for real consequences to be in place, but that's not going to happen.
    - outlace 3y ago
      Okay, assuming that’s true, I’m suggesting that if we paid these positions better, maybe more “normal” people would want to do these jobs. So maybe you don’t significantly change the incentives for existing corrupt people, but you change the incentives for non-corrupt people to join government ranks.
suzzer99 3y ago
One very likely trait among rich people seems to be that they never have enough money. So I doubt it.
cityofdelusion 3y ago
I doubt it, important people just plain live in a different world, especially those in positions of prestige and power. Trading favors with people in their class is part of the game, its how you stay socially relevant. I have little money myself, but I have relatives who were high society types and the stuff they talk about is mind-boggling. Massive corruption is just baked in at those levels.
kelipso 3y ago
You're dealing with billionaire money vs millionaire money, the difference in scale is huge and the billionaire basically can put in as much as he wants. Besides that it's not like there's a limit to human greed, plus there's numerous other social benefits to just spending time with billionaires, etc etc. Cracking down in it like the government does with typical government employees and contractors is the correct way.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  > You're dealing with billionaire money vs millionaire money I don't think that's true at all. The base salary for a Justice is ~$270k as of 2021.
  - kelipso 3y ago
    The guy is pretty old, I'm sure he has at least a million dollars worth of wealth, probably just from his house he has a million dollars.
    - Ancapistani 3y ago
      True, but net worth is far from the same thing as income. That $1m house costs him money to keep up. FWIW, I don’t think $750k would be too much for a Justice’s salary. It wouldn’t hurt, and would likely pay for itself just through the reduced motivation for corruption. We shouldn’t have top-level public servants that are struggling financially. We shouldn’t make them ultra wealthy, but paying them enough to live comfortably even if they’re terrible with money and live paycheck to paycheck seems like a reasonable approach.
eesmith 3y ago
> the salaries of these kinds of jobs would be a lot higher Literally a joke in The Onion, at https://www.theonion.com/clarence-thomas-promises-to-adopt-code-of-ethics-for-th-1850409408 https://www.theonion.com/clarence-thomas-promises-to-adopt-c... : """I admit to seeing the wisdom in developing some kind of ethical framework for the Supreme Court, so long as Papa gets some sugar,” the senior associate justice said in a prepared statement, emphasizing that he would be willing to submit to a code of conduct that included ignoring special interests and disclosing private trips if there was some serious coinage thrown his way. “It’s reasonable to believe justices serving on the highest court in the land should hold themselves to the highest ethical standards, if only so citizens can have faith in their decision-making process. And if that means so much to lawmakers, they should take whatever donors are giving me every year and double it. Also, in order for me to adhere to some sense of values, Ginni needs to wet her beak.” Thomas suggested he might also support term limits for justices if he was guaranteed a yearly all-expenses-paid trip to the Maldives in retirement."""

bmitc 3y ago

It isn't market dynamics that creates this corruption.

outlace 3y ago
Well, I found this: https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/higher-government-wages-may-reduce-corruption https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/higher-government-wages-may-r... GPT4 summary: "Research suggests that higher government wages can reduce corruption, particularly in poorer countries. However, as a country's income per capita increases, this method becomes less effective, leading to a need for other measures such as improving rule of law, transparency, and better mechanisms for detecting and punishing corruption."
- bmitc 3y ago
  I just don't think this is mometarily driven corruption. It's corruption of the purest form, and these people crave power, influence, and acceptance amongst the so-called elite. I'm sure money is a part of it, but I don't see how paying depraved people more makes the corruption go away. The main way to make it happen is for real consequences to be in place, but that's not going to happen.
  - outlace 3y ago
    Okay, assuming that’s true, I’m suggesting that if we paid these positions better, maybe more “normal” people would want to do these jobs. So maybe you don’t significantly change the incentives for existing corrupt people, but you change the incentives for non-corrupt people to join government ranks.

suzzer99 3y ago

One very likely trait among rich people seems to be that they never have enough money. So I doubt it.

cityofdelusion 3y ago

I doubt it, important people just plain live in a different world, especially those in positions of prestige and power. Trading favors with people in their class is part of the game, its how you stay socially relevant. I have little money myself, but I have relatives who were high society types and the stuff they talk about is mind-boggling. Massive corruption is just baked in at those levels.

kelipso 3y ago

You're dealing with billionaire money vs millionaire money, the difference in scale is huge and the billionaire basically can put in as much as he wants. Besides that it's not like there's a limit to human greed, plus there's numerous other social benefits to just spending time with billionaires, etc etc. Cracking down in it like the government does with typical government employees and contractors is the correct way.

Ancapistani 3y ago
> You're dealing with billionaire money vs millionaire money I don't think that's true at all. The base salary for a Justice is ~$270k as of 2021.
- kelipso 3y ago
  The guy is pretty old, I'm sure he has at least a million dollars worth of wealth, probably just from his house he has a million dollars.
  - Ancapistani 3y ago
    True, but net worth is far from the same thing as income. That $1m house costs him money to keep up. FWIW, I don’t think $750k would be too much for a Justice’s salary. It wouldn’t hurt, and would likely pay for itself just through the reduced motivation for corruption. We shouldn’t have top-level public servants that are struggling financially. We shouldn’t make them ultra wealthy, but paying them enough to live comfortably even if they’re terrible with money and live paycheck to paycheck seems like a reasonable approach.

eesmith 3y ago

> the salaries of these kinds of jobs would be a lot higher Literally a joke in The Onion, at https://www.theonion.com/clarence-thomas-promises-to-adopt-code-of-ethics-for-th-1850409408 https://www.theonion.com/clarence-thomas-promises-to-adopt-c... : """I admit to seeing the wisdom in developing some kind of ethical framework for the Supreme Court, so long as Papa gets some sugar,” the senior associate justice said in a prepared statement, emphasizing that he would be willing to submit to a code of conduct that included ignoring special interests and disclosing private trips if there was some serious coinage thrown his way. “It’s reasonable to believe justices serving on the highest court in the land should hold themselves to the highest ethical standards, if only so citizens can have faith in their decision-making process. And if that means so much to lawmakers, they should take whatever donors are giving me every year and double it. Also, in order for me to adhere to some sense of values, Ginni needs to wet her beak.” Thomas suggested he might also support term limits for justices if he was guaranteed a yearly all-expenses-paid trip to the Maldives in retirement."""