8 ms·

Is this before or after taxes? When researching taxes in Germany, apparently there is a 9% tax if you belong to a church. What is that about? Did some politic

by xedrac 3y ago

Is this before or after taxes? When researching taxes in Germany, apparently there is a 9% tax if you belong to a church. What is that about? Did some politician read about tithing in the Bible and decide that money should go to them instead?

Timon3 3y ago
The tax is collected by the state and sent to the church. No politician decided to take money here. The real scandal is that the German state subsidizes the churches tax collection. We are not a secular state.
guenthert 3y ago
Saleries are typically given before taxes. Taxes in Germany are, for the better or worse, fairly high, higher than in the USA (sales tax is much higher). Expect some 42% income tax if you earn well. The church tax ("Kirchensteuer") applies if you are (declared) member of either dominant religion (Lutheran protestant or Catholic christian). It's the state which levies the tax, but only as a service to the church to which the funds are passed. It is about 10% of the income tax, i.e. about 4% of your taxable income.
- mfalcao 3y ago
  Interesting. Does the state charge for the collection service? And what if you declare yourself a member of the church but do not want to contribute - can you opt out or do you just have to lie?
  - guenthert 3y ago
    > Does the state charge for the collection service? I have no idea. I'd think that's something to be negotiated between church and state. > And what if you declare yourself a member of the church but do not want to contribute - can you opt out or do you just have to lie? If you tell the state that you're member of either of those two religions, you have to pay the tax. Tax evasion is taken seriously in Germany. If you lie to the state, it's out of the picture. And no church will check your tax record when you go there to pray. They might refuse other services like marriage etc. if you're not declared member. Most people though are either fond of their church and more or less gladly give or just exit. A good share of people living in Germany don't belong to any religion.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- blackmoon42 3y ago
  But the 42% is the max tax-rate. As the tax itself is increasing dynamically, you are paying less for the income before the limit. So the average tax for your income is usually lower. For example: A single will pay 42% for income above 60k, but the tax for the 60k income is more like 26%.
  - guenthert 3y ago
    Indeed. Thanks for clarifying. If you're single and earn well, you still might take home only about 60% due to mandatory health and social insurance contributions. Details vary, following calculator looks promising: https://www.nettolohn.de/ https://www.nettolohn.de/
fabianholzer 3y ago
Usually you name the salaries before taxes and social security, because what you get payed depends on a lot of other factors. The church tax are 9% (or in Bavaria and Baden-Würrtemberg 8%) of the amount of income tax, and they themselves are tax-deductible again (a bit like donations to other charitable causes). Also the churches have to pay a fee of IIRC 3% of that tax to the federal budget. The state basically acts as a service provider. It is also opt-in for the various confessions to make use of that right. Many eligible religions organizations choose not to. The historical reason is that in the 19th century the the still absolutist states in the territory of Germany took away assets from the churches that they used to fund their parishes, but they gave them the right to levy taxes as compensation.
dontupvoteme 3y ago
>apparently there is a 9% tax if you belong to a church. I think it's more like 1-2% on gross income. I just ran it in some dodgy online calculator and I would be paying 2%, but it's 9% on some <technical german term for fictitious tax income?> I used to know these german taxation words, kind of, but it's a bit too late to go looking them up again.

by xedrac 3y ago

Timon3 3y ago

The tax is collected by the state and sent to the church. No politician decided to take money here. The real scandal is that the German state subsidizes the churches tax collection. We are not a secular state.

guenthert 3y ago

Saleries are typically given before taxes. Taxes in Germany are, for the better or worse, fairly high, higher than in the USA (sales tax is much higher). Expect some 42% income tax if you earn well. The church tax ("Kirchensteuer") applies if you are (declared) member of either dominant religion (Lutheran protestant or Catholic christian). It's the state which levies the tax, but only as a service to the church to which the funds are passed. It is about 10% of the income tax, i.e. about 4% of your taxable income.

mfalcao 3y ago
Interesting. Does the state charge for the collection service? And what if you declare yourself a member of the church but do not want to contribute - can you opt out or do you just have to lie?
- guenthert 3y ago
  > Does the state charge for the collection service? I have no idea. I'd think that's something to be negotiated between church and state. > And what if you declare yourself a member of the church but do not want to contribute - can you opt out or do you just have to lie? If you tell the state that you're member of either of those two religions, you have to pay the tax. Tax evasion is taken seriously in Germany. If you lie to the state, it's out of the picture. And no church will check your tax record when you go there to pray. They might refuse other services like marriage etc. if you're not declared member. Most people though are either fond of their church and more or less gladly give or just exit. A good share of people living in Germany don't belong to any religion.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
blackmoon42 3y ago
But the 42% is the max tax-rate. As the tax itself is increasing dynamically, you are paying less for the income before the limit. So the average tax for your income is usually lower. For example: A single will pay 42% for income above 60k, but the tax for the 60k income is more like 26%.
- guenthert 3y ago
  Indeed. Thanks for clarifying. If you're single and earn well, you still might take home only about 60% due to mandatory health and social insurance contributions. Details vary, following calculator looks promising: https://www.nettolohn.de/ https://www.nettolohn.de/

fabianholzer 3y ago

Usually you name the salaries before taxes and social security, because what you get payed depends on a lot of other factors. The church tax are 9% (or in Bavaria and Baden-Würrtemberg 8%) of the amount of income tax, and they themselves are tax-deductible again (a bit like donations to other charitable causes). Also the churches have to pay a fee of IIRC 3% of that tax to the federal budget. The state basically acts as a service provider. It is also opt-in for the various confessions to make use of that right. Many eligible religions organizations choose not to. The historical reason is that in the 19th century the the still absolutist states in the territory of Germany took away assets from the churches that they used to fund their parishes, but they gave them the right to levy taxes as compensation.

dontupvoteme 3y ago

>apparently there is a 9% tax if you belong to a church. I think it's more like 1-2% on gross income. I just ran it in some dodgy online calculator and I would be paying 2%, but it's 9% on some <technical german term for fictitious tax income?> I used to know these german taxation words, kind of, but it's a bit too late to go looking them up again.