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This is an interesting quandary for officials of the Catholic Church. Now, "fake priests" can often be hired to solemnize weddings. If the couple is unhappy wi
by NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
This is an interesting quandary for officials of the Catholic Church.
Now, "fake priests" can often be hired to solemnize weddings. If the couple is unhappy with the way their legitimate Catholic parish is handling things (9 months prep is too long, too expensive, won't let them sing "Imagine", requires bridesmaids to cover their shoulders, won't do ceremony on the beach) then the couple can easily contact an "independent" Catholic priest who has all the bona fides (or not; such priests may have been laicized or excommunicated) and who will happily accommodate their every need, for a price. This, however, may not confer the legitimate Catholic marriage that they were hoping for. Because Catholics are required to observe "proper form" which means we must marry in the context of a Mass, or get a dispensation. So if the priest won't observe canonical form, the couple ends up with an invalid wedding, which means they aren't married at all, but cohabiting. However, if the priest does observe canonical form, it is possible that the couple does validly marry, because the priest is merely a witness to the marriage: the couple are the actual ministers of the sacrament when they freely exchange consent. So, there are possibilities when it comes to marriage.
However, a "fake priest" cannot validly absolve people of their sins in any case. The reason is that absolution (forgiveness in the confessional) requires jurisdiction. Jurisdiction is conferred by the bishop of a place and priests carry a celebret indicating that they hold faculties to do such things as celebrate Mass, preach homilies, hear confessions, perform baptisms, etc. A priest without jurisdiction is definitely faking confessions. If the priest is laicized, or excommunicated, or schismatic, or simply visiting another territory and hasn't procured faculties from the ordinary, he lacks jurisdiction.
I am betting that their "fake priest" was or is a Catholic priest of some kind, but possibly schismatic or laicized. It would've probably been someone who knew all the right words and actions that could've put on a convincing act for these workers (I assume they were probably mostly Latino Catholics here and that's why they were scammed in this manner.) I am glad that the Diocese of Sacramento has promptly released a statement disavowing knowledge; that's doing the right thing.
Oh yeah, and if you want a "fake priest" to baptize your baby, that will totally work. Because, actually, anyone and everyone can baptize. You don't need a priest or a deacon, except that they know the right words. Even an atheist or a pagan could baptize someone. That's what is unique about this sacrament.
- DonHopkins 3y agoJesus Mouse knew all the right words and actions to prove he was the second coming of Christ, but the Catholic Church beat the shit out of him and dumped him outside onto the street. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34405486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34405486
- jacquesm 3y agoIn plenty of places the legal part of the marriage is entirely separate from the religious part and being married in a religious ceremony with 'proper form' wouldn't have any legal standing anyway. In the eyes of the law in those countries fake priests and real priests are equal.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoCorrect; there are places where a couple must consecutively go through both a religious ceremony and a civil ceremony in order to satisfy the requirements of both Church and State. Sometimes it matters which order they do it in. In these United States, all Catholic priests (and other ministers who regularly solemnize weddings) are licensed by the state to act as witness in the civil sphere as well. So one of the most important things a priest will do right before a wedding is sign off on the state's marriage license and have the secretary file that with the clerk.
- soco 3y agoWhere I attended ceremonies (Romania, Switzerland) the priests will only marry you "officially" if you present them a civil marriage certificate, so ceremonies are usually arranged right after the visit to the city hall. I said "officially" because you'd surely find some willing monk if you elope, but I'm not sure even the church would afterwards recognize that marriage without some hassle.
- mbork_pl 3y agoJust one nitpick: in fact, > an atheist or a pagan could baptize someone but they need to (a) know the right words, (b) do the right thing (i.e., immerse/pour/sprinkle the baptized with/in water) and (c) have the intention to do what the Church does when baptizing (I might get the wording wrong, but you get the (rough) idea).