7 ms·

Company to pay fine after hiring fake priest to extract confessions of workers

123 points by exar0815 3y ago

isanjay 3y ago
What a headline lol
wonderwonder 3y ago
"managers were paid bonuses from the employee tip pool" That's pretty low
jacknews 3y ago
Just wow. I know this is the extreme end of the scale, but the entire scale stinks. Workers should also be owners.
- ydlr 3y ago
  Maybe that is the just penalty is such egregious cases. The ownership of the business should be forfeited to the employees.
daniel-cussen 3y ago
[dead]
planede 3y ago
I have trouble imagining how this worked. Where did the fake priest operate? At a nearby church? Or did he visit the workplace and offer his services there? edit: OK, looks like I just missed it. It seems the "priest" did just visit the workplace during work hours. It's super weird.
- bombcar 3y ago
  If your entire workforce is Catholic Mexicans I could see how it would be all too effective. Don't trust hedge priests! (Almost all dioceses will have a list of parishes/priests somewhere, here is Sacramento's: https://www.scd.org/directory https://www.scd.org/directory - if the priest is not listed in an official diocese publication somewhere, and claims to be visiting, he must (in the USA) have a celebret and a letter of good standing; if he cannot produce those be extremely suspicious. Confession is an additional permission that must be listed in writing - https://canonlaw.ninja/?nums=903;937 https://canonlaw.ninja/?nums=903;937 )
womitt 3y ago
Advanced methods
RalfWausE 3y ago
Its rare that i lust for having someone burned at the stake... but in THIS particular case...
cs702 3y ago
This reads like the beginning of a plot of a really bad, poorly-written movie -- the kind that I'd quickly dismiss as too implausible. "Ha-ha, there's no way any sane manager would ever hire an actor to play a priest to obtain private details about employees' personal lives," I would have thought. And yet, it's real. Shame on everyone who was in on this malignant ploy. Sigh.
- mhh__ 3y ago
  Cast Nicolas Cage as the priest and you're onto a winner.
  - cs702 3y ago
    In his inimitable way, Cage would say "yesss!" to the script, in a heartbeat, no doubt.
JimtheCoder 3y ago
I'm just surprised this happened in California...I would have expected another state...
- ignatiusj 3y ago
  [dead]
- gedy 3y ago
  Why? There are millions of Mexican and Central American origin Catholics there.
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    While that is true, when I hear of stories like this, the Bible Belt is the first place that I think of...not Norcal.
    - Apocryphon 3y ago
      Those are Baptists and other low church Protestants, who don’t have the rite of confession.
      - JimtheCoder 3y ago
        I learn something new everyday.
    - Joker_vD 3y ago
      I'd personally think the Bible Belt as the last place because presumably people from there would consider that to be an unpardonable sin since, y'know, they believe in all that stuff? Now, amoral and atheistic managers, those people would have absolutely zero qualms about things like that. In fact, I vaguely recall stories about priest impersonation during early Soviet history but I may be just inventing things on the spot here.
      - 3y ago
function_seven 3y ago
This is an NLRB thing right? Do these employees still have a good case in civil court?
juujian 3y ago
The fine is only $5,000, while they have to pay $140,000 in back wages. Imagine you stole $140,000 and all you had to do was pay a fine. If anything, we are learning here that there is a pretty low risk associated with trying to pull something like that off.
- kurthr 3y ago
  Well, that and the eternal damnation of your soul. They'd probably rehypothecated theirs already, but it's worth noting that: Absolution of an accomplice is a sin that incurs automatic excommunication.
  - Onavo 3y ago
    By doctrine, you can’t be criminally punished for offences by the church if you confess to your superior.
    - mbork_pl 3y ago
      Interesting, source?
  - whstl 3y ago
    I wonder if I can use this strategy to stop paying the church tax in Germany. I was baptised Catholic but never practiced. But since the catholic church is internationally integrated I gotta pay the tax perpetually unless I get excommunicated.
    - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
      You need to pay an enforced tax? Is it levied by the government on behalf of the church or is there official papal taxmen? Seems like you should try to speed run excommunication. After all, there's a lot of fun ways to sin in the eyes of god.
      - whstl 3y ago
Curzel 3y ago
I was ready with "FloridaCorp", turns out it's California, RIP my joke
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
This is an interesting quandary for officials of the Catholic Church. Now, "fake priests" can often be hired to solemnize weddings. If the couple is unhappy with the way their legitimate Catholic parish is handling things (9 months prep is too long, too expensive, won't let them sing "Imagine", requires bridesmaids to cover their shoulders, won't do ceremony on the beach) then the couple can easily contact an "independent" Catholic priest who has all the bona fides (or not; such priests may have been laicized or excommunicated) and who will happily accommodate their every need, for a price. This, however, may not confer the legitimate Catholic marriage that they were hoping for. Because Catholics are required to observe "proper form" which means we must marry in the context of a Mass, or get a dispensation. So if the priest won't observe canonical form, the couple ends up with an invalid wedding, which means they aren't married at all, but cohabiting. However, if the priest does observe canonical form, it is possible that the couple does validly marry, because the priest is merely a witness to the marriage: the couple are the actual ministers of the sacrament when they freely exchange consent. So, there are possibilities when it comes to marriage. However, a "fake priest" cannot validly absolve people of their sins in any case. The reason is that absolution (forgiveness in the confessional) requires jurisdiction. Jurisdiction is conferred by the bishop of a place and priests carry a celebret indicating that they hold faculties to do such things as celebrate Mass, preach homilies, hear confessions, perform baptisms, etc. A priest without jurisdiction is definitely faking confessions. If the priest is laicized, or excommunicated, or schismatic, or simply visiting another territory and hasn't procured faculties from the ordinary, he lacks jurisdiction. I am betting that their "fake priest" was or is a Catholic priest of some kind, but possibly schismatic or laicized. It would've probably been someone who knew all the right words and actions that could've put on a convincing act for these workers (I assume they were probably mostly Latino Catholics here and that's why they were scammed in this manner.) I am glad that the Diocese of Sacramento has promptly released a statement disavowing knowledge; that's doing the right thing. Oh yeah, and if you want a "fake priest" to baptize your baby, that will totally work. Because, actually, anyone and everyone can baptize. You don't need a priest or a deacon, except that they know the right words. Even an atheist or a pagan could baptize someone. That's what is unique about this sacrament.
- DonHopkins 3y ago
DonHopkins 3y ago
Churches should also pay fines (and taxes) for hiring real priests to extract confessions. And also for deceptively mislabeling crackers and wine as human flesh and blood, and grooming children into cannibalism and vampirism.
protoman3000 3y ago
Innocent and dependent people being brutally exploited and abused by evil and greedy people, being brought to justice by society. What's your sentiment after hearing about a story like this?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
londons_explore 3y ago
> reported that a manager falsely claimed that immigration issues would be raised > Investigators also found [...] some employees faced “adverse immigration consequences” for cooperating with investigators. So... The real winner here was the company. The employees involved were warned they would be booted out of the country, and then they were booted out of the country, all for reporting their employer for unfair practices. So the employee got ~$4000 in back wages, but he and probably his family got ejected from their home country, school, job, friends, and life, with probably a lifetime ban from returning. And the US department of Labor has no ability to get those employees back into the country.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

123 points by exar0815 3y ago

isanjay 3y ago

What a headline lol

wonderwonder 3y ago

"managers were paid bonuses from the employee tip pool" That's pretty low

jacknews 3y ago

Just wow. I know this is the extreme end of the scale, but the entire scale stinks. Workers should also be owners.

ydlr 3y ago
Maybe that is the just penalty is such egregious cases. The ownership of the business should be forfeited to the employees.

daniel-cussen 3y ago

[dead]

planede 3y ago

I have trouble imagining how this worked. Where did the fake priest operate? At a nearby church? Or did he visit the workplace and offer his services there? edit: OK, looks like I just missed it. It seems the "priest" did just visit the workplace during work hours. It's super weird.

bombcar 3y ago
If your entire workforce is Catholic Mexicans I could see how it would be all too effective. Don't trust hedge priests! (Almost all dioceses will have a list of parishes/priests somewhere, here is Sacramento's: https://www.scd.org/directory https://www.scd.org/directory - if the priest is not listed in an official diocese publication somewhere, and claims to be visiting, he must (in the USA) have a celebret and a letter of good standing; if he cannot produce those be extremely suspicious. Confession is an additional permission that must be listed in writing - https://canonlaw.ninja/?nums=903;937 https://canonlaw.ninja/?nums=903;937 )

womitt 3y ago

Advanced methods

RalfWausE 3y ago

Its rare that i lust for having someone burned at the stake... but in THIS particular case...

cs702 3y ago

This reads like the beginning of a plot of a really bad, poorly-written movie -- the kind that I'd quickly dismiss as too implausible. "Ha-ha, there's no way any sane manager would ever hire an actor to play a priest to obtain private details about employees' personal lives," I would have thought. And yet, it's real. Shame on everyone who was in on this malignant ploy. Sigh.

mhh__ 3y ago
Cast Nicolas Cage as the priest and you're onto a winner.
- cs702 3y ago
  In his inimitable way, Cage would say "yesss!" to the script, in a heartbeat, no doubt.

JimtheCoder 3y ago

I'm just surprised this happened in California...I would have expected another state...

ignatiusj 3y ago
[dead]
gedy 3y ago
Why? There are millions of Mexican and Central American origin Catholics there.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  While that is true, when I hear of stories like this, the Bible Belt is the first place that I think of...not Norcal.
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    Those are Baptists and other low church Protestants, who don’t have the rite of confession.
    - JimtheCoder 3y ago
      I learn something new everyday.
  - Joker_vD 3y ago
    I'd personally think the Bible Belt as the last place because presumably people from there would consider that to be an unpardonable sin since, y'know, they believe in all that stuff? Now, amoral and atheistic managers, those people would have absolutely zero qualms about things like that. In fact, I vaguely recall stories about priest impersonation during early Soviet history but I may be just inventing things on the spot here.
    - 3y ago

function_seven 3y ago

This is an NLRB thing right? Do these employees still have a good case in civil court?

juujian 3y ago

The fine is only $5,000, while they have to pay $140,000 in back wages. Imagine you stole $140,000 and all you had to do was pay a fine. If anything, we are learning here that there is a pretty low risk associated with trying to pull something like that off.

kurthr 3y ago
Well, that and the eternal damnation of your soul. They'd probably rehypothecated theirs already, but it's worth noting that: Absolution of an accomplice is a sin that incurs automatic excommunication.
- Onavo 3y ago
  By doctrine, you can’t be criminally punished for offences by the church if you confess to your superior.
  - mbork_pl 3y ago
    Interesting, source?
- whstl 3y ago
  I wonder if I can use this strategy to stop paying the church tax in Germany. I was baptised Catholic but never practiced. But since the catholic church is internationally integrated I gotta pay the tax perpetually unless I get excommunicated.
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    You need to pay an enforced tax? Is it levied by the government on behalf of the church or is there official papal taxmen? Seems like you should try to speed run excommunication. After all, there's a lot of fun ways to sin in the eyes of god.
    - whstl 3y ago

Curzel 3y ago

I was ready with "FloridaCorp", turns out it's California, RIP my joke

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

This is an interesting quandary for officials of the Catholic Church. Now, "fake priests" can often be hired to solemnize weddings. If the couple is unhappy with the way their legitimate Catholic parish is handling things (9 months prep is too long, too expensive, won't let them sing "Imagine", requires bridesmaids to cover their shoulders, won't do ceremony on the beach) then the couple can easily contact an "independent" Catholic priest who has all the bona fides (or not; such priests may have been laicized or excommunicated) and who will happily accommodate their every need, for a price. This, however, may not confer the legitimate Catholic marriage that they were hoping for. Because Catholics are required to observe "proper form" which means we must marry in the context of a Mass, or get a dispensation. So if the priest won't observe canonical form, the couple ends up with an invalid wedding, which means they aren't married at all, but cohabiting. However, if the priest does observe canonical form, it is possible that the couple does validly marry, because the priest is merely a witness to the marriage: the couple are the actual ministers of the sacrament when they freely exchange consent. So, there are possibilities when it comes to marriage. However, a "fake priest" cannot validly absolve people of their sins in any case. The reason is that absolution (forgiveness in the confessional) requires jurisdiction. Jurisdiction is conferred by the bishop of a place and priests carry a celebret indicating that they hold faculties to do such things as celebrate Mass, preach homilies, hear confessions, perform baptisms, etc. A priest without jurisdiction is definitely faking confessions. If the priest is laicized, or excommunicated, or schismatic, or simply visiting another territory and hasn't procured faculties from the ordinary, he lacks jurisdiction. I am betting that their "fake priest" was or is a Catholic priest of some kind, but possibly schismatic or laicized. It would've probably been someone who knew all the right words and actions that could've put on a convincing act for these workers (I assume they were probably mostly Latino Catholics here and that's why they were scammed in this manner.) I am glad that the Diocese of Sacramento has promptly released a statement disavowing knowledge; that's doing the right thing. Oh yeah, and if you want a "fake priest" to baptize your baby, that will totally work. Because, actually, anyone and everyone can baptize. You don't need a priest or a deacon, except that they know the right words. Even an atheist or a pagan could baptize someone. That's what is unique about this sacrament.

DonHopkins 3y ago

DonHopkins 3y ago

Churches should also pay fines (and taxes) for hiring real priests to extract confessions. And also for deceptively mislabeling crackers and wine as human flesh and blood, and grooming children into cannibalism and vampirism.

protoman3000 3y ago

Innocent and dependent people being brutally exploited and abused by evil and greedy people, being brought to justice by society. What's your sentiment after hearing about a story like this?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

londons_explore 3y ago

> reported that a manager falsely claimed that immigration issues would be raised > Investigators also found [...] some employees faced “adverse immigration consequences” for cooperating with investigators. So... The real winner here was the company. The employees involved were warned they would be booted out of the country, and then they were booted out of the country, all for reporting their employer for unfair practices. So the employee got ~$4000 in back wages, but he and probably his family got ejected from their home country, school, job, friends, and life, with probably a lifetime ban from returning. And the US department of Labor has no ability to get those employees back into the country.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]