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Regarding this claim that Wiener's wife was conservative, and slandered Pitts (or his associates), there are some interesting answers on https://hsm.stackexchan

by veltas 3y ago

Regarding this claim that Wiener's wife was conservative, and slandered Pitts (or his associates), there are some interesting answers on https://hsm.stackexchange.com/questions/184/ https://hsm.stackexchange.com/questions/184/ to the question of why Wiener broke off ties, including one that suggests that both Wiener and his wife were actually ardent socialists, and one that there were other difficulties working together that lead up to the break. It's stated as if fact in this article that it was slander, I don't know how reliable the source is. It's not too interesting to me, and it's sad all the same that Pitts drunk himself to death. It's always sad seeing academic or otherwise principled people broken by politics and social troubles, regardless of the full story, I'm fully sympathetic to it. If someone has more info on the actual sources here it would probably be of value for posterity.

mandmandam 3y ago
"Dark Hero of the Information Age" is the book that I found, and it looks pretty legit to me. Multiple sources all say roundabout the same thing of Margaret, even their daughter. She accused her daughter of trying to seduce her husband after getting her ears pierced, ffs.
hnbad 3y ago
It's only one answer and it doesn't give sources for its claim, so I'm not sure the claim about the Wieners being Trostkyists or socialists should be taken at their word. That said, according to his Wikipedia article, Norbert Wiener was a pacifist and didn't shy away from crediting Soviet researchers and sharing his work with them as with any other part of the international scientific community. Considering he was active during the McCarthy era, anything more tangible than that could have likely been career-ending so I would take those claims with a grain of salt. Given that these claims allegedly stem from Lettvin, who again according to his Wikipedia article strongly believed in individual rights but opposed the AAA&S withdrawing an award from someone for vocally supporting literal fascism (the article mentions Kropotkin as an early influence but the emphasis on "individual rights" reads more right-libertarian than socialist), and given the historical context (McCarthyism), I would read any such claim as an accusation and attempt at defamation rather than trivia. It's worth mentioning that the political spectrum is fuzzy and many-facetted and individuals can hold contradictory beliefs with regard to the ideologies they profess, especially when condensed to a one-dimensional gradient. It's entirely possible that Wiener's wife (or he himself) was conservative and yet an "ardent socialist". Pacifism is widely regarded as a leftist position (if only because it was often seen treasonous and "communism" was the label for the enemy). The Soviet Union (which seems relevant if the Wieners were interested in Trostky's ideas) was culturally conservative in many ways: while it was decades ahead in gender equality, queerness was seen as bourgeois perversion and "bohemian" lifestyles were largely seen as counter-revolutionary.

by veltas 3y ago

mandmandam 3y ago

"Dark Hero of the Information Age" is the book that I found, and it looks pretty legit to me. Multiple sources all say roundabout the same thing of Margaret, even their daughter. She accused her daughter of trying to seduce her husband after getting her ears pierced, ffs.

hnbad 3y ago

It's only one answer and it doesn't give sources for its claim, so I'm not sure the claim about the Wieners being Trostkyists or socialists should be taken at their word. That said, according to his Wikipedia article, Norbert Wiener was a pacifist and didn't shy away from crediting Soviet researchers and sharing his work with them as with any other part of the international scientific community. Considering he was active during the McCarthy era, anything more tangible than that could have likely been career-ending so I would take those claims with a grain of salt. Given that these claims allegedly stem from Lettvin, who again according to his Wikipedia article strongly believed in individual rights but opposed the AAA&S withdrawing an award from someone for vocally supporting literal fascism (the article mentions Kropotkin as an early influence but the emphasis on "individual rights" reads more right-libertarian than socialist), and given the historical context (McCarthyism), I would read any such claim as an accusation and attempt at defamation rather than trivia. It's worth mentioning that the political spectrum is fuzzy and many-facetted and individuals can hold contradictory beliefs with regard to the ideologies they profess, especially when condensed to a one-dimensional gradient. It's entirely possible that Wiener's wife (or he himself) was conservative and yet an "ardent socialist". Pacifism is widely regarded as a leftist position (if only because it was often seen treasonous and "communism" was the label for the enemy). The Soviet Union (which seems relevant if the Wieners were interested in Trostky's ideas) was culturally conservative in many ways: while it was decades ahead in gender equality, queerness was seen as bourgeois perversion and "bohemian" lifestyles were largely seen as counter-revolutionary.