5 ms·

Is there no app/api that abstracts all this away?

rich_sasha 3y ago
There are agencies that do this. They have international offices, they hire the remote-abroad employee as a real employee of theirs, and the hiring company contracts the agency as a B2B deal. The agency is on the hook for all these things. I don't know anyone who has ever used these so I guess they are expensive and awkward. To answer your question more directly, it's not an app but rather a conglomerate of international brick-and-mortar businesses, with legal departments, HR, payroll, insurance... Not lightweight.
- chpatrick 3y ago
  We used remote.com for this and it was a pretty smooth experience actually. It's not "cheap" (around 600 per month per employee), but not massive relative to the cost of employing someone.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > are agencies that do this You're describing, in a nutshell, consulting.
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    No, consulting does recruitment themselves. This means they just deal with legally employing person you've recruited.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      If you want to abstract away the legality, you abstract away the legality. Consulting provides that. Everything else involves massive legal bills and is uncompetitive.
      - rich_sasha 3y ago
        It's different. Consulting firms offer you someone. Maybe it's someone you pick, maybe it's someone they pick, but it is someone whose full time job is working as a consultant at said firm. Here, the firm finds someone they want to hire, and the agency deals with the legal nitty gritty. If you mean consulting as an individual, it's still different, for both parties, because you recreate an employment situation. The employee has legal employment, notice period, employment rights, insurance, yada yada. Employee has long-term commitment. If you're saying consulting as an individual is the same as.l employment, well... I guess then every two things are the same...
        wojciii 3y ago
        Consulting companies can also find a freelancer that they know and work with that will solve your problem without any hassles.
        KptMarchewa 3y ago
        They know vs you know. The "know" part here is a very important distinction. Maybe not for you, if you have cookie cutter problems.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Consulting firms offer you someone Every consulting firm I’ve worked with is highly responsive to feedback regarding specific people. If I want that person, I get that person. They work on my team. Someone else handles the paperwork and abstracts away the legal questions.
        rich_sasha 3y ago
        Correct; the difference is, who comes up with the initiative of a particular person. You come to a firm, talk to some of their guys and you like Alice best, you work with Alice -> consultancy. You find Bob somewhere in the world, like him, want to hire him, find a company that deals with the legal details -> remote work agency.
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  In a previous role, I saw a whole team in Kyiv via an agency https://www.ciklum.com/ https://www.ciklum.com/ working for a company in London. Those guys were good. I hope they're doing OK.
throwawayadvsec 3y ago
there is if you pay
KptMarchewa 3y ago
deel.com
gregjor 3y ago
Lol, no. This is a people and legal issue, across national jurisdictions, not a technical problem to solve with an API.

There are agencies that do this. They have international offices, they hire the remote-abroad employee as a real employee of theirs, and the hiring company contracts the agency as a B2B deal. The agency is on the hook for all these things. I don't know anyone who has ever used these so I guess they are expensive and awkward. To answer your question more directly, it's not an app but rather a conglomerate of international brick-and-mortar businesses, with legal departments, HR, payroll, insurance... Not lightweight.

chpatrick 3y ago
We used remote.com for this and it was a pretty smooth experience actually. It's not "cheap" (around 600 per month per employee), but not massive relative to the cost of employing someone.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> are agencies that do this You're describing, in a nutshell, consulting.
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  No, consulting does recruitment themselves. This means they just deal with legally employing person you've recruited.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    If you want to abstract away the legality, you abstract away the legality. Consulting provides that. Everything else involves massive legal bills and is uncompetitive.
    - rich_sasha 3y ago
      It's different. Consulting firms offer you someone. Maybe it's someone you pick, maybe it's someone they pick, but it is someone whose full time job is working as a consultant at said firm. Here, the firm finds someone they want to hire, and the agency deals with the legal nitty gritty. If you mean consulting as an individual, it's still different, for both parties, because you recreate an employment situation. The employee has legal employment, notice period, employment rights, insurance, yada yada. Employee has long-term commitment. If you're saying consulting as an individual is the same as.l employment, well... I guess then every two things are the same...
      - wojciii 3y ago
        Consulting companies can also find a freelancer that they know and work with that will solve your problem without any hassles.
        KptMarchewa 3y ago
        They know vs you know. The "know" part here is a very important distinction. Maybe not for you, if you have cookie cutter problems.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Consulting firms offer you someone Every consulting firm I’ve worked with is highly responsive to feedback regarding specific people. If I want that person, I get that person. They work on my team. Someone else handles the paperwork and abstracts away the legal questions.
        rich_sasha 3y ago
        Correct; the difference is, who comes up with the initiative of a particular person. You come to a firm, talk to some of their guys and you like Alice best, you work with Alice -> consultancy. You find Bob somewhere in the world, like him, want to hire him, find a company that deals with the legal details -> remote work agency.
SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
In a previous role, I saw a whole team in Kyiv via an agency https://www.ciklum.com/ https://www.ciklum.com/ working for a company in London. Those guys were good. I hope they're doing OK.

throwawayadvsec 3y ago

there is if you pay

KptMarchewa 3y ago

deel.com

gregjor 3y ago

Lol, no. This is a people and legal issue, across national jurisdictions, not a technical problem to solve with an API.