3 ms·

Is this something US specific? I lived those years (in Europe) as a teenager and I definitely remind people, including elders, teachers, etc, encouraging me to

Is this something US specific? I lived those years (in Europe) as a teenager and I definitely remind people, including elders, teachers, etc, encouraging me to learn programming and computers. At worst there were a ton of them considering the career a dead end (big mistake), but nobody ever considered that dangerous. But I might have just got lucky with whom I met.

carlmr 3y ago
>At worst there were a ton of them considering the career a dead end (big mistake), At least in Germany that was a rational assumption for a large part of the 90s where for a few years they tried offshoring all IT related jobs, only to onshore them again later when it didn't work.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Which jobs did they offshore and then onshore? From my PoV, the offshoring never stopped, seeing how many German companies moved SW dev to Eastern Europe. Most automotive SW seems to be developed in Eastern Europe nowadays and I haven't seen any large German company that doesn't have off-shore IT/SW offices in a low CoL country where most of the grunt work is being done, with only the bosses/management being in the German HQ. Only recently it seems to have slowed down, as the wages there approached the ones in Germany thanks to US companies entering the market with even batter wages, so there's no cost savings to be made anymore for them hiring here. Also, DW was reporting of German companies moving IT/SW dev to Africa now that Eastern Europe was all fished out of cheap labor.[1] So the offshoring never stopped it seems, and knowing how stingy German companies are with paying ICs and increasing their salaries, it doesn't surprise me. They'll do anything not to increase wages. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-taps-into-africas-it-sector-to-fill-labor-gap/a-65254237 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-taps-into-africas-it-sector-to...
  - carlmr 3y ago
    I've been developing software in Germany for years now, and while offshoring never completely stopped, the trust in offshoring dropped a lot. And only very basic tasks are sent abroad, since cultural differences have made it impossible to trust any output. Eastern Europe has the advantage of a more closely related culture than India which was the prime offshoring target in the 90s, but as you say the salary differential isn't as large, meaning a lot of companies will think twice about the overhead.
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      >cultural differences have made it impossible to trust any output That cuts both ways, with German culture (in IT/tech) being off-putting to many foreign talent as well, who tend to prefer anglophone countries or anglophone companies operating in Germany, and strictly avoid traditional German companies, for good reasons.
PartiallyTyped 3y ago
My grandparents yelled at me because computers won’t put food on the table.
- treeman79 3y ago
  My dad was pissed at me for wasting time programming a computer as a kid. He was even more pissed, but also proud, when I start earning more than him my first year working.
jen20 3y ago
I’d imagine it may have been - if not specific to the US, it certainly wasn’t the case in the UK. Unlike the government of today who see investment technology skills as a way to produce meaningless sound bites and perhaps fill up some office space on a roundabout somewhere, the government of the 80s insisted the BBC embark on a computer literacy programme which had wide ranging consequences - the lack of follow up throughout the years is perhaps why I hear British accents wherever I go across the Bay Area though!
deleted 3y ago
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carlmr 3y ago

>At worst there were a ton of them considering the career a dead end (big mistake), At least in Germany that was a rational assumption for a large part of the 90s where for a few years they tried offshoring all IT related jobs, only to onshore them again later when it didn't work.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Which jobs did they offshore and then onshore? From my PoV, the offshoring never stopped, seeing how many German companies moved SW dev to Eastern Europe. Most automotive SW seems to be developed in Eastern Europe nowadays and I haven't seen any large German company that doesn't have off-shore IT/SW offices in a low CoL country where most of the grunt work is being done, with only the bosses/management being in the German HQ. Only recently it seems to have slowed down, as the wages there approached the ones in Germany thanks to US companies entering the market with even batter wages, so there's no cost savings to be made anymore for them hiring here. Also, DW was reporting of German companies moving IT/SW dev to Africa now that Eastern Europe was all fished out of cheap labor.[1] So the offshoring never stopped it seems, and knowing how stingy German companies are with paying ICs and increasing their salaries, it doesn't surprise me. They'll do anything not to increase wages. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-taps-into-africas-it-sector-to-fill-labor-gap/a-65254237 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-taps-into-africas-it-sector-to...
- carlmr 3y ago
  I've been developing software in Germany for years now, and while offshoring never completely stopped, the trust in offshoring dropped a lot. And only very basic tasks are sent abroad, since cultural differences have made it impossible to trust any output. Eastern Europe has the advantage of a more closely related culture than India which was the prime offshoring target in the 90s, but as you say the salary differential isn't as large, meaning a lot of companies will think twice about the overhead.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    >cultural differences have made it impossible to trust any output That cuts both ways, with German culture (in IT/tech) being off-putting to many foreign talent as well, who tend to prefer anglophone countries or anglophone companies operating in Germany, and strictly avoid traditional German companies, for good reasons.

PartiallyTyped 3y ago

My grandparents yelled at me because computers won’t put food on the table.

treeman79 3y ago
My dad was pissed at me for wasting time programming a computer as a kid. He was even more pissed, but also proud, when I start earning more than him my first year working.

jen20 3y ago

I’d imagine it may have been - if not specific to the US, it certainly wasn’t the case in the UK. Unlike the government of today who see investment technology skills as a way to produce meaningless sound bites and perhaps fill up some office space on a roundabout somewhere, the government of the 80s insisted the BBC embark on a computer literacy programme which had wide ranging consequences - the lack of follow up throughout the years is perhaps why I hear British accents wherever I go across the Bay Area though!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]