4 ms·

Back in 90s if you could build a PC everyone just assumed you could hack their accounts. I mean granted security was almost non existent. But I learned to not

Back in 90s if you could build a PC everyone just assumed you could hack their accounts. I mean granted security was almost non existent. But I learned to not talk about programming with anyone older than myself.

xanathar 3y ago
Is this something US specific? I lived those years (in Europe) as a teenager and I definitely remind people, including elders, teachers, etc, encouraging me to learn programming and computers. At worst there were a ton of them considering the career a dead end (big mistake), but nobody ever considered that dangerous. But I might have just got lucky with whom I met.
- carlmr 3y ago
  >At worst there were a ton of them considering the career a dead end (big mistake), At least in Germany that was a rational assumption for a large part of the 90s where for a few years they tried offshoring all IT related jobs, only to onshore them again later when it didn't work.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Which jobs did they offshore and then onshore? From my PoV, the offshoring never stopped, seeing how many German companies moved SW dev to Eastern Europe. Most automotive SW seems to be developed in Eastern Europe nowadays and I haven't seen any large German company that doesn't have off-shore IT/SW offices in a low CoL country where most of the grunt work is being done, with only the bosses/management being in the German HQ. Only recently it seems to have slowed down, as the wages there approached the ones in Germany thanks to US companies entering the market with even batter wages, so there's no cost savings to be made anymore for them hiring here. Also, DW was reporting of German companies moving IT/SW dev to Africa now that Eastern Europe was all fished out of cheap labor.[1] So the offshoring never stopped it seems, and knowing how stingy German companies are with paying ICs and increasing their salaries, it doesn't surprise me. They'll do anything not to increase wages. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-taps-into-africas-it-sector-to-fill-labor-gap/a-65254237 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-taps-into-africas-it-sector-to...
    - carlmr 3y ago
      I've been developing software in Germany for years now, and while offshoring never completely stopped, the trust in offshoring dropped a lot. And only very basic tasks are sent abroad, since cultural differences have made it impossible to trust any output. Eastern Europe has the advantage of a more closely related culture than India which was the prime offshoring target in the 90s, but as you say the salary differential isn't as large, meaning a lot of companies will think twice about the overhead.
      - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
        >cultural differences have made it impossible to trust any output That cuts both ways, with German culture (in IT/tech) being off-putting to many foreign talent as well, who tend to prefer anglophone countries or anglophone companies operating in Germany, and strictly avoid traditional German companies, for good reasons.
- PartiallyTyped 3y ago
  My grandparents yelled at me because computers won’t put food on the table.
  - treeman79 3y ago
    My dad was pissed at me for wasting time programming a computer as a kid. He was even more pissed, but also proud, when I start earning more than him my first year working.
- jen20 3y ago
  I’d imagine it may have been - if not specific to the US, it certainly wasn’t the case in the UK. Unlike the government of today who see investment technology skills as a way to produce meaningless sound bites and perhaps fill up some office space on a roundabout somewhere, the government of the 80s insisted the BBC embark on a computer literacy programme which had wide ranging consequences - the lack of follow up throughout the years is perhaps why I hear British accents wherever I go across the Bay Area though!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
ChuckNorris89 3y ago
>Back in 90s if you could build a PC everyone just assumed you could hack their accounts. Where? Maybe in rich western countries (US?). Growing up in Eastern Europe in the '90's, everyone from 9 years old to mid thirties was more or less proficient with building PCs and operating them since we couldn't afford buying locked down gaming consoles, DVD players and legitimate digital content of the time, so PCs were the only platform to support all forms of digital entertainment (pirated of course), alongside doing productivity work, but it was never associated with being a "hacker" who could cause harm, since it was such common knowledge and everyone was doing it.
southwesterly 3y ago
When I bought my Dell pc in the 90s, I had to sign a disclaimer saying that I was not going to use it in the creation of nuclear weapons.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- cafard 3y ago
  Seriously? I remember some freeware (a Scheme?) from the 1980s or 1990s that said that it was not provided for use in nuclear something--maybe just power, maybe weapons. It was not clear from the notice whether this was a political statement or a lawyerly defense against possible liability--at least I didn't inspect the statement closely enough to tell.
  - thequux 3y ago
    That clause (which was a more general restriction on use in safety-critical systems) was definitely part of the Java EULA pre-OpenJDK, but I'd imagine that it was more widespread. As I understand it, it was very much a liability issue for Sun (not to mention the PR nightmare of being in any way a cause of a nuclear accident). If you wanted you could pay them a great deal of money to accept that liability, but they wouldn't do it for free.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    That sort of clause still persists in EULAs. It's in iTunes'. Or it was just a few years ago at any rate and I assume still is.
prmoustache 3y ago
I learned not to talk about IT stuff so that people stop asking me to fix their computer. Do people ask surgeons to operate them for free on the kitchen table when they have a medical issue?
- njarboe 3y ago
  No. But I do ask my friend, who is a doctor, about human health and medical issues here and there.

xanathar 3y ago

Is this something US specific? I lived those years (in Europe) as a teenager and I definitely remind people, including elders, teachers, etc, encouraging me to learn programming and computers. At worst there were a ton of them considering the career a dead end (big mistake), but nobody ever considered that dangerous. But I might have just got lucky with whom I met.

carlmr 3y ago
>At worst there were a ton of them considering the career a dead end (big mistake), At least in Germany that was a rational assumption for a large part of the 90s where for a few years they tried offshoring all IT related jobs, only to onshore them again later when it didn't work.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Which jobs did they offshore and then onshore? From my PoV, the offshoring never stopped, seeing how many German companies moved SW dev to Eastern Europe. Most automotive SW seems to be developed in Eastern Europe nowadays and I haven't seen any large German company that doesn't have off-shore IT/SW offices in a low CoL country where most of the grunt work is being done, with only the bosses/management being in the German HQ. Only recently it seems to have slowed down, as the wages there approached the ones in Germany thanks to US companies entering the market with even batter wages, so there's no cost savings to be made anymore for them hiring here. Also, DW was reporting of German companies moving IT/SW dev to Africa now that Eastern Europe was all fished out of cheap labor.[1] So the offshoring never stopped it seems, and knowing how stingy German companies are with paying ICs and increasing their salaries, it doesn't surprise me. They'll do anything not to increase wages. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-taps-into-africas-it-sector-to-fill-labor-gap/a-65254237 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-taps-into-africas-it-sector-to...
  - carlmr 3y ago
    I've been developing software in Germany for years now, and while offshoring never completely stopped, the trust in offshoring dropped a lot. And only very basic tasks are sent abroad, since cultural differences have made it impossible to trust any output. Eastern Europe has the advantage of a more closely related culture than India which was the prime offshoring target in the 90s, but as you say the salary differential isn't as large, meaning a lot of companies will think twice about the overhead.
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      >cultural differences have made it impossible to trust any output That cuts both ways, with German culture (in IT/tech) being off-putting to many foreign talent as well, who tend to prefer anglophone countries or anglophone companies operating in Germany, and strictly avoid traditional German companies, for good reasons.
PartiallyTyped 3y ago
My grandparents yelled at me because computers won’t put food on the table.
- treeman79 3y ago
  My dad was pissed at me for wasting time programming a computer as a kid. He was even more pissed, but also proud, when I start earning more than him my first year working.
jen20 3y ago
I’d imagine it may have been - if not specific to the US, it certainly wasn’t the case in the UK. Unlike the government of today who see investment technology skills as a way to produce meaningless sound bites and perhaps fill up some office space on a roundabout somewhere, the government of the 80s insisted the BBC embark on a computer literacy programme which had wide ranging consequences - the lack of follow up throughout the years is perhaps why I hear British accents wherever I go across the Bay Area though!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

ChuckNorris89 3y ago

>Back in 90s if you could build a PC everyone just assumed you could hack their accounts. Where? Maybe in rich western countries (US?). Growing up in Eastern Europe in the '90's, everyone from 9 years old to mid thirties was more or less proficient with building PCs and operating them since we couldn't afford buying locked down gaming consoles, DVD players and legitimate digital content of the time, so PCs were the only platform to support all forms of digital entertainment (pirated of course), alongside doing productivity work, but it was never associated with being a "hacker" who could cause harm, since it was such common knowledge and everyone was doing it.

southwesterly 3y ago

When I bought my Dell pc in the 90s, I had to sign a disclaimer saying that I was not going to use it in the creation of nuclear weapons.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cafard 3y ago
Seriously? I remember some freeware (a Scheme?) from the 1980s or 1990s that said that it was not provided for use in nuclear something--maybe just power, maybe weapons. It was not clear from the notice whether this was a political statement or a lawyerly defense against possible liability--at least I didn't inspect the statement closely enough to tell.
- thequux 3y ago
  That clause (which was a more general restriction on use in safety-critical systems) was definitely part of the Java EULA pre-OpenJDK, but I'd imagine that it was more widespread. As I understand it, it was very much a liability issue for Sun (not to mention the PR nightmare of being in any way a cause of a nuclear accident). If you wanted you could pay them a great deal of money to accept that liability, but they wouldn't do it for free.
- thfuran 3y ago
  That sort of clause still persists in EULAs. It's in iTunes'. Or it was just a few years ago at any rate and I assume still is.

prmoustache 3y ago

I learned not to talk about IT stuff so that people stop asking me to fix their computer. Do people ask surgeons to operate them for free on the kitchen table when they have a medical issue?

njarboe 3y ago
No. But I do ask my friend, who is a doctor, about human health and medical issues here and there.