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I hardly think that is fair. Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. They use off the shelf airbags and brakes. Their software on th

I hardly think that is fair. Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. They use off the shelf airbags and brakes. Their software on the steering, braking, etc control loops are more or less standard for embedded vehicle systems. The linux PC running the touch screen is not the system controlling the brakes. The failure modes for a vehicle are also a lot simpler than a sub. If the interior starts to fill with smoke you can stop and get out. A submarine doesn't have that option.

LeoPanthera 3y ago
> Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. Haven't they? They've removed radar from their cars and now the AEB system uses image recognition. Does any other manufacturer do that?
- xenadu02 3y ago
  I believe other manufacturers do use other sensors besides radar... but that's still a relatively pedantic question about the efficacy of a single safety feature. It still isn't an apt comparison to the reportedly sloppy design of the Titan sub. If Tesla decided to make their suspension entirely out of carbon fiber despite knowing carbon fiber handles stress cycles differently and tends to fail catastrophically at the limit then you'd have an apt comparison. Or you can look at the Boeing 787's carbon fiber body design as an example of how to do something completely differently. They deviated from the norm but that involved years of engineering and testing to identify potential failure points, how operating conditions impact the service life, etc. They designed inspection schedules and procedures for out of spec events like excessive G-forces, hard landings, explosive decompression, over-pressurization due to pack failure, and so on. All of these things are well known with aluminum airplane bodies but not for carbon fiber. So a 787 operator knows if they have an explosive decompression event exactly what needs to be checked and how many flights to shave off the expected service life. From what we know right now Titan had a unique hull design yet did absolutely none of the engineering or testing legwork before putting paying passengers inside. That is what makes them reckless and Boeing or Tesla not so much.
- gbear605 3y ago
  Most cars don’t have radar at all, so it’s hardly like they’re sacrificing consumers by not including it.
  - LeoPanthera 3y ago
    I don't think that's true at all. "General Motors said Wednesday that automatic emergency braking will be standard on 98% of its new vehicles by Aug. 31, the end of this model year. The four remaining automakers were close to hitting 95% in December." https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-05-31/us-safety-agency-to-require-automatic-emergency-braking-on-new-vehicles-and-set-tougher-standards https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-05-31/us-safety-...
    - gbear605 3y ago
      I was referring to cars in general, not new cars. It’s absurd to say that something is malpractice when it was standard practice just a couple years ago. I’d prefer that we get rid of the advanced electronics in cars entirely, so I’m not exactly a fan of Tesla’s model, but I’m also not a fan of saying that every car must have radar to be a reasonable car.
- elsonrodriguez 3y ago
  Subaru's system has been using stereoscopic cameras for years.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
  Yet, their AEB system is excellent as per Euro NCAP https://www.carscoops.com/2022/09/2022-tesla-model-y-performs-very-well-at-euro-ncaps-pedestrian-emergency-braking-test/ https://www.carscoops.com/2022/09/2022-tesla-model-y-perform...

LeoPanthera 3y ago

> Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. Haven't they? They've removed radar from their cars and now the AEB system uses image recognition. Does any other manufacturer do that?

xenadu02 3y ago
I believe other manufacturers do use other sensors besides radar... but that's still a relatively pedantic question about the efficacy of a single safety feature. It still isn't an apt comparison to the reportedly sloppy design of the Titan sub. If Tesla decided to make their suspension entirely out of carbon fiber despite knowing carbon fiber handles stress cycles differently and tends to fail catastrophically at the limit then you'd have an apt comparison. Or you can look at the Boeing 787's carbon fiber body design as an example of how to do something completely differently. They deviated from the norm but that involved years of engineering and testing to identify potential failure points, how operating conditions impact the service life, etc. They designed inspection schedules and procedures for out of spec events like excessive G-forces, hard landings, explosive decompression, over-pressurization due to pack failure, and so on. All of these things are well known with aluminum airplane bodies but not for carbon fiber. So a 787 operator knows if they have an explosive decompression event exactly what needs to be checked and how many flights to shave off the expected service life. From what we know right now Titan had a unique hull design yet did absolutely none of the engineering or testing legwork before putting paying passengers inside. That is what makes them reckless and Boeing or Tesla not so much.
gbear605 3y ago
Most cars don’t have radar at all, so it’s hardly like they’re sacrificing consumers by not including it.
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  I don't think that's true at all. "General Motors said Wednesday that automatic emergency braking will be standard on 98% of its new vehicles by Aug. 31, the end of this model year. The four remaining automakers were close to hitting 95% in December." https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-05-31/us-safety-agency-to-require-automatic-emergency-braking-on-new-vehicles-and-set-tougher-standards https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-05-31/us-safety-...
  - gbear605 3y ago
    I was referring to cars in general, not new cars. It’s absurd to say that something is malpractice when it was standard practice just a couple years ago. I’d prefer that we get rid of the advanced electronics in cars entirely, so I’m not exactly a fan of Tesla’s model, but I’m also not a fan of saying that every car must have radar to be a reasonable car.
elsonrodriguez 3y ago
Subaru's system has been using stereoscopic cameras for years.
rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
Yet, their AEB system is excellent as per Euro NCAP https://www.carscoops.com/2022/09/2022-tesla-model-y-performs-very-well-at-euro-ncaps-pedestrian-emergency-braking-test/ https://www.carscoops.com/2022/09/2022-tesla-model-y-perform...