12 ms·

> That's an awful lot of keyboard engineering, given nobody knows what happened yet. Unless I'm mistaken, the subject article starts with the words "Submarine

> That's an awful lot of keyboard engineering, given nobody knows what happened yet. Unless I'm mistaken, the subject article starts with the words "Submarine missing". The fact that the whole thing was jury rigged and double checked by nobody with certifications is enough to start pointing fingers at the engineers. This isn't the company's first trip either. They've taken multiple trips down and have almost lost the submarine multiple times. This time they actually managed to lose it for good. The reason people are mad at the company is because their negligence killed 4 people for no good reason.

venusenvy47 3y ago
I'm also annoyed at the company for all the public emergency resources being forced to help rescue this contraption.
- kbos87 3y ago
  Budgets are unfortunately a zero sum game, and I have to wonder if there are much more obvious ways to save lives more efficiently with the amount of money it’s costing the US government to undertake a massive and technically complex search for 5 people.
  - emsixteen 3y ago
    If you're going to go down that route, please direct it at the cost of the US military's unfathomably high spending.
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    There's capital and then operational costs. If a Coast Guard ship heads out of St. John's or a Navy aircraft/ship/submarine transits to the area, they burn fuel but already existed with all their trained personnel. So most of the cost is moving things into position. Expensive, but the asset probably would have been moving somewhere anyway.
- Robin_Message 3y ago
  I thought about this, and came to the conclusion that the coastguard and especially military see it as a good opportunity to test their equipment and procedures for real. And seafarers have a strong code of ethics about helping other seafarers. As long as they aren't brown.
- TeamMCS 3y ago
  Whilst I agree, and I hope the vessel had adequate insurance for such an eventuality, it's a excellent "training" exercise. Real world scenarios which don't involve any enemy combatants are invaluable to keep everyone at peak readiness
  - venusenvy47 3y ago
    It's also a little annoying to hear their lead adviser, David Concannon, complain about government moving too slowly: https://youtu.be/nW3r01_ZWmY https://youtu.be/nW3r01_ZWmY https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/oceangate-david-concannon-titanic-submarine-b2361453.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/oceangate-... He's representing a company that took safety shortcuts because government regulations slow innovation, but is also complaining that the government isn't helping them quickly enough in this search. He thanks the governments, but says they need to move faster. As an adviser, he should be telling this company to have a better emergency plan.
ethbr0 3y ago
Yes. "Missing" Assuming it sunk, it'll be order of week before it's found. It'll be order of month before it's raised, if it can be. And then after analysis we might know why it sunk. +60 hours after lost contact, while there are possibly still people alive inside the vehicle, seems premature and crass to be casting accusations for internet points.
- dmonitor 3y ago
  The fact that they can’t even find it is in part because they didn’t outfit it with any capability to send a distress signal. They lost it multiple times but never added a radio beacon or anything.
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    Sonar beacon. Radio is useless underwater. It reportedly has radar reflectors and radio, for when it's on the surface. At 3800 m+ underwater, it'd need to be a powerful beacon. Even most military sonar maxes out around half that.
    - ptx 3y ago
      Couldn't you have a beacon that detaches from the vehicle, floats up to the surface and transmits the signal from there?
      - adql 3y ago
        You'd need to carry 4km of cable with you
      - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
        AKA an EPIRB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_radiobeacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_... You can buy one for a few hundred bucks, but based on everything I've read about this outfit so far, I'd be surprised if they even had that.
    - 3y ago

venusenvy47 3y ago

I'm also annoyed at the company for all the public emergency resources being forced to help rescue this contraption.

kbos87 3y ago
Budgets are unfortunately a zero sum game, and I have to wonder if there are much more obvious ways to save lives more efficiently with the amount of money it’s costing the US government to undertake a massive and technically complex search for 5 people.
- emsixteen 3y ago
  If you're going to go down that route, please direct it at the cost of the US military's unfathomably high spending.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  There's capital and then operational costs. If a Coast Guard ship heads out of St. John's or a Navy aircraft/ship/submarine transits to the area, they burn fuel but already existed with all their trained personnel. So most of the cost is moving things into position. Expensive, but the asset probably would have been moving somewhere anyway.
Robin_Message 3y ago
I thought about this, and came to the conclusion that the coastguard and especially military see it as a good opportunity to test their equipment and procedures for real. And seafarers have a strong code of ethics about helping other seafarers. As long as they aren't brown.
TeamMCS 3y ago
Whilst I agree, and I hope the vessel had adequate insurance for such an eventuality, it's a excellent "training" exercise. Real world scenarios which don't involve any enemy combatants are invaluable to keep everyone at peak readiness
- venusenvy47 3y ago
  It's also a little annoying to hear their lead adviser, David Concannon, complain about government moving too slowly: https://youtu.be/nW3r01_ZWmY https://youtu.be/nW3r01_ZWmY https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/oceangate-david-concannon-titanic-submarine-b2361453.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/oceangate-... He's representing a company that took safety shortcuts because government regulations slow innovation, but is also complaining that the government isn't helping them quickly enough in this search. He thanks the governments, but says they need to move faster. As an adviser, he should be telling this company to have a better emergency plan.

ethbr0 3y ago

Yes. "Missing" Assuming it sunk, it'll be order of week before it's found. It'll be order of month before it's raised, if it can be. And then after analysis we might know why it sunk. +60 hours after lost contact, while there are possibly still people alive inside the vehicle, seems premature and crass to be casting accusations for internet points.

dmonitor 3y ago
The fact that they can’t even find it is in part because they didn’t outfit it with any capability to send a distress signal. They lost it multiple times but never added a radio beacon or anything.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  Sonar beacon. Radio is useless underwater. It reportedly has radar reflectors and radio, for when it's on the surface. At 3800 m+ underwater, it'd need to be a powerful beacon. Even most military sonar maxes out around half that.
  - ptx 3y ago
    Couldn't you have a beacon that detaches from the vehicle, floats up to the surface and transmits the signal from there?
    - adql 3y ago
      You'd need to carry 4km of cable with you
    - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
      AKA an EPIRB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_radiobeacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_... You can buy one for a few hundred bucks, but based on everything I've read about this outfit so far, I'd be surprised if they even had that.
  - 3y ago