3 ms·

They really remind me of Tesla. Exploit bleeding-edge technology by doing things as fast and as cheaply as possible. This may sound glib but I really do blame E

They really remind me of Tesla. Exploit bleeding-edge technology by doing things as fast and as cheaply as possible. This may sound glib but I really do blame Elon for making "move fast and break things" acceptable in the world of hardware. When things work you can do great things in record time. When things don't work, people die.

chinchilla2020 3y ago
The difference is that Tesla spends enormous manufacturing cost on aesthetics. Where this sub looks like a bucket of bolts.
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  I own a Tesla, and I can tell you that the aesthetics are only aesthetics. The beauty is literally skin-deep. Inside, the car is bodged together to make manufacturing as cheap as possible and with no other considerations. Tesla likes to boast about the safety of their cars, and while I don't deny this, I believe that the safety is an accidental side-effect of the inherent properties of building a car with no explosive fuel and a heavy battery pack at the very bottom of the car.
  - sixQuarks 3y ago
    If safety is an accidental side effect, then why are no other electric vehicles ranked as high in safety?
    - LeoPanthera 3y ago
      Where did you read that? Many other EVs have equivalent safety ratings. https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/electric-vehicles/ https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/electric-vehicle... https://www.shift2electric.com/_files/ugd/49f443_f12301e882e5495088fe164bfa51d5aa.pdf https://www.shift2electric.com/_files/ugd/49f443_f12301e882e...
      - sixQuarks 3y ago
        https://thedriven.io/2023/01/23/tesla-model-y-wins-2023-safety-award-with-near-perfect-safety-rating/amp/ https://thedriven.io/2023/01/23/tesla-model-y-wins-2023-safe... Using the euroncap ratings you used as an example, the model Y received the highest rating ever tested
xenadu02 3y ago
I hardly think that is fair. Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. They use off the shelf airbags and brakes. Their software on the steering, braking, etc control loops are more or less standard for embedded vehicle systems. The linux PC running the touch screen is not the system controlling the brakes. The failure modes for a vehicle are also a lot simpler than a sub. If the interior starts to fill with smoke you can stop and get out. A submarine doesn't have that option.
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  > Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. Haven't they? They've removed radar from their cars and now the AEB system uses image recognition. Does any other manufacturer do that?
  - xenadu02 3y ago
    I believe other manufacturers do use other sensors besides radar... but that's still a relatively pedantic question about the efficacy of a single safety feature. It still isn't an apt comparison to the reportedly sloppy design of the Titan sub. If Tesla decided to make their suspension entirely out of carbon fiber despite knowing carbon fiber handles stress cycles differently and tends to fail catastrophically at the limit then you'd have an apt comparison. Or you can look at the Boeing 787's carbon fiber body design as an example of how to do something completely differently. They deviated from the norm but that involved years of engineering and testing to identify potential failure points, how operating conditions impact the service life, etc. They designed inspection schedules and procedures for out of spec events like excessive G-forces, hard landings, explosive decompression, over-pressurization due to pack failure, and so on. All of these things are well known with aluminum airplane bodies but not for carbon fiber. So a 787 operator knows if they have an explosive decompression event exactly what needs to be checked and how many flights to shave off the expected service life. From what we know right now Titan had a unique hull design yet did absolutely none of the engineering or testing legwork before putting paying passengers inside. That is what makes them reckless and Boeing or Tesla not so much.
  - 3y ago
nomel 3y ago
> but I really do blame Elon for making "move fast and break things" acceptable in the world of hardware. No offense, but to put it bluntly, this just means you have no experience with the hardware world, pre Musk, and don't understand the line between "user feature" and "safety critical".

chinchilla2020 3y ago

The difference is that Tesla spends enormous manufacturing cost on aesthetics. Where this sub looks like a bucket of bolts.

LeoPanthera 3y ago
I own a Tesla, and I can tell you that the aesthetics are only aesthetics. The beauty is literally skin-deep. Inside, the car is bodged together to make manufacturing as cheap as possible and with no other considerations. Tesla likes to boast about the safety of their cars, and while I don't deny this, I believe that the safety is an accidental side-effect of the inherent properties of building a car with no explosive fuel and a heavy battery pack at the very bottom of the car.
- sixQuarks 3y ago
  If safety is an accidental side effect, then why are no other electric vehicles ranked as high in safety?
  - LeoPanthera 3y ago
    Where did you read that? Many other EVs have equivalent safety ratings. https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/electric-vehicles/ https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/electric-vehicle... https://www.shift2electric.com/_files/ugd/49f443_f12301e882e5495088fe164bfa51d5aa.pdf https://www.shift2electric.com/_files/ugd/49f443_f12301e882e...
    - sixQuarks 3y ago
      https://thedriven.io/2023/01/23/tesla-model-y-wins-2023-safety-award-with-near-perfect-safety-rating/amp/ https://thedriven.io/2023/01/23/tesla-model-y-wins-2023-safe... Using the euroncap ratings you used as an example, the model Y received the highest rating ever tested

xenadu02 3y ago

I hardly think that is fair. Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. They use off the shelf airbags and brakes. Their software on the steering, braking, etc control loops are more or less standard for embedded vehicle systems. The linux PC running the touch screen is not the system controlling the brakes. The failure modes for a vehicle are also a lot simpler than a sub. If the interior starts to fill with smoke you can stop and get out. A submarine doesn't have that option.

LeoPanthera 3y ago
> Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. Haven't they? They've removed radar from their cars and now the AEB system uses image recognition. Does any other manufacturer do that?
- xenadu02 3y ago
  I believe other manufacturers do use other sensors besides radar... but that's still a relatively pedantic question about the efficacy of a single safety feature. It still isn't an apt comparison to the reportedly sloppy design of the Titan sub. If Tesla decided to make their suspension entirely out of carbon fiber despite knowing carbon fiber handles stress cycles differently and tends to fail catastrophically at the limit then you'd have an apt comparison. Or you can look at the Boeing 787's carbon fiber body design as an example of how to do something completely differently. They deviated from the norm but that involved years of engineering and testing to identify potential failure points, how operating conditions impact the service life, etc. They designed inspection schedules and procedures for out of spec events like excessive G-forces, hard landings, explosive decompression, over-pressurization due to pack failure, and so on. All of these things are well known with aluminum airplane bodies but not for carbon fiber. So a 787 operator knows if they have an explosive decompression event exactly what needs to be checked and how many flights to shave off the expected service life. From what we know right now Titan had a unique hull design yet did absolutely none of the engineering or testing legwork before putting paying passengers inside. That is what makes them reckless and Boeing or Tesla not so much.
- 3y ago

nomel 3y ago

> but I really do blame Elon for making "move fast and break things" acceptable in the world of hardware. No offense, but to put it bluntly, this just means you have no experience with the hardware world, pre Musk, and don't understand the line between "user feature" and "safety critical".