4 ms·

>Heck, you’d think people on hacker news would be all over open source alternatives to proprietary hardware, software, and services. Yes, every PinePhone threa

>Heck, you’d think people on hacker news would be all over open source alternatives to proprietary hardware, software, and services. Yes, every PinePhone thread has people posting that it's unusable because it's not as good as a flagship iPhone or Android. Or the usual "not ready to be a daily driver" ... because the definition of "daily driver" is apparently a constant of the universe written by God so everyone is expected to have the same one. Meanwhile I've been "daily-driving" my PP for two years at this point because calls, SMS, voicemail, Firefox and the camera work well enough.

SoftTalker 3y ago
For me a mobile phone needs: phone; SMS; Web browser; maps/navigation. That’s 90% of what I do with my phone and I can live without the other 10%
not_your_vase 3y ago
This is kind of my biggest gripe with Pine64 (beside the unusable modem in the Pinephones, which crashes all the time): the community. Every time I google something related a pine* product problem, there is at least 1 result from pine64 forum where the answer is along the lines of "if you don't like it, go away. we are happy with it as it is, there is no solution, and you shouldn't be seeking one. you are bad person for even asking. pine* is not made by apple/samsung, you can't expect it to do things". I have quite a bunch of pine64 devices, but after I saw these interactions, I didn't even dare to ask anything nor to interact with them on any level.
- Arnavion 3y ago
  >(beside the unusable modem in the Pinephones, which crashes all the time) Install the OSS firmware. Quectel firmware is shitty. For me the OSS firmware doesn't crash at all, though I've heard other people say it still crashes for them once a day or so (?). In any case eg25-m will bring it back so it won't be "unusable". >"if you don't like it, go away. we are happy with it as it is, there is no solution, and you shouldn't be seeking one. you are bad person for even asking. pine* is not made by apple/samsung, you can't expect it to do things". You only get these responses if you reveal yourself as someone who didn't read the warning labels before buying the hardware and/or if you act entitled to a solution, as AndyKelley did in this thread. We indeed do not have any patience for someone who comes in and says "It's complete trash. The software is shit, the battery is shit, it's expensive, low specs, completely unusable."
  - not_your_vase 3y ago
    I have tried each every available modem fw versions, including the closed source ones, and all possible versions from biktor also (I did run multi-day experiments with each of them, taking notes about their stability, looking for a working version). Every single one of them crashes, the only difference is the time spent between crashes. Maybe it is usable for you. My definition is different - if I can't rely on it for any period of time, it is not suitable for any purpose, but for messing around. I won't try to convince anyone about the (un)friendliness of the community. If you enjoy its current state, good for you. I, for one, avoid it. I guess everyone can decide what community they want to participate. While GP's language was definitely coarse, he does make some point. Personally I'm in for the hacking, I care relatively little for other people's (userspace-) software on these devices. But I do see a lot of sentiments around the web saying things like "look how good phosh/kde/XYZ is running on the PP, wow, such speed, many responsiveness" - even though it is objectively not running good when tried in person. Such statements can definitely trick users who just want a novelty phone - they read these reviews, and think that finally there is a viable alternative. (Disclaimer: while I'm not a fan of some aspects like userspace sw and community, I'm a big fan of most Pine64 hardware, and I not only don't regret any cent I spent with them, I plan to throw more money at them.)
    - Arnavion 3y ago
      >But I do see a lot of sentiments around the web saying things like "look how good phosh/kde/XYZ is running on the PP, wow, such speed, many responsiveness" - even though it is objectively not running good when tried in person. Such statements can definitely trick users who just want a novelty phone - they read these reviews, and think that finally there is a viable alternative. Either you're saying those reviews are lying / wrong, in which case the problem is not the product but the reviews, or you're saying those reviews are accurate but don't reflect the use case of the buyer for whatever reason, in which case it's not the problem of the product nor the reviews. In my very first comment I said that he was welcome to come onto the IRC etc and ask if the phone can do X, Y, Z that he needs it to do, and he would've gotten an honest answer for that. You've decided that you don't even want to do that because you've been soured from the community for whatever reason, and frankly I don't care to convince you otherwise. In the same way, AndyKelley spending a $1000+ without doing the research and then whining about it is his loss, not mine. Even in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36414414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36414414 he's still going on about "The issue with librem is that they [Purism] put very little effort into the basic user experience of the software." because he thinks it's an iPhone or Android that only has one choice of OS or UI.

SoftTalker 3y ago

For me a mobile phone needs: phone; SMS; Web browser; maps/navigation. That’s 90% of what I do with my phone and I can live without the other 10%

not_your_vase 3y ago

This is kind of my biggest gripe with Pine64 (beside the unusable modem in the Pinephones, which crashes all the time): the community. Every time I google something related a pine* product problem, there is at least 1 result from pine64 forum where the answer is along the lines of "if you don't like it, go away. we are happy with it as it is, there is no solution, and you shouldn't be seeking one. you are bad person for even asking. pine* is not made by apple/samsung, you can't expect it to do things". I have quite a bunch of pine64 devices, but after I saw these interactions, I didn't even dare to ask anything nor to interact with them on any level.

Arnavion 3y ago
>(beside the unusable modem in the Pinephones, which crashes all the time) Install the OSS firmware. Quectel firmware is shitty. For me the OSS firmware doesn't crash at all, though I've heard other people say it still crashes for them once a day or so (?). In any case eg25-m will bring it back so it won't be "unusable". >"if you don't like it, go away. we are happy with it as it is, there is no solution, and you shouldn't be seeking one. you are bad person for even asking. pine* is not made by apple/samsung, you can't expect it to do things". You only get these responses if you reveal yourself as someone who didn't read the warning labels before buying the hardware and/or if you act entitled to a solution, as AndyKelley did in this thread. We indeed do not have any patience for someone who comes in and says "It's complete trash. The software is shit, the battery is shit, it's expensive, low specs, completely unusable."
- not_your_vase 3y ago
  I have tried each every available modem fw versions, including the closed source ones, and all possible versions from biktor also (I did run multi-day experiments with each of them, taking notes about their stability, looking for a working version). Every single one of them crashes, the only difference is the time spent between crashes. Maybe it is usable for you. My definition is different - if I can't rely on it for any period of time, it is not suitable for any purpose, but for messing around. I won't try to convince anyone about the (un)friendliness of the community. If you enjoy its current state, good for you. I, for one, avoid it. I guess everyone can decide what community they want to participate. While GP's language was definitely coarse, he does make some point. Personally I'm in for the hacking, I care relatively little for other people's (userspace-) software on these devices. But I do see a lot of sentiments around the web saying things like "look how good phosh/kde/XYZ is running on the PP, wow, such speed, many responsiveness" - even though it is objectively not running good when tried in person. Such statements can definitely trick users who just want a novelty phone - they read these reviews, and think that finally there is a viable alternative. (Disclaimer: while I'm not a fan of some aspects like userspace sw and community, I'm a big fan of most Pine64 hardware, and I not only don't regret any cent I spent with them, I plan to throw more money at them.)
  - Arnavion 3y ago
    >But I do see a lot of sentiments around the web saying things like "look how good phosh/kde/XYZ is running on the PP, wow, such speed, many responsiveness" - even though it is objectively not running good when tried in person. Such statements can definitely trick users who just want a novelty phone - they read these reviews, and think that finally there is a viable alternative. Either you're saying those reviews are lying / wrong, in which case the problem is not the product but the reviews, or you're saying those reviews are accurate but don't reflect the use case of the buyer for whatever reason, in which case it's not the problem of the product nor the reviews. In my very first comment I said that he was welcome to come onto the IRC etc and ask if the phone can do X, Y, Z that he needs it to do, and he would've gotten an honest answer for that. You've decided that you don't even want to do that because you've been soured from the community for whatever reason, and frankly I don't care to convince you otherwise. In the same way, AndyKelley spending a $1000+ without doing the research and then whining about it is his loss, not mine. Even in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36414414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36414414 he's still going on about "The issue with librem is that they [Purism] put very little effort into the basic user experience of the software." because he thinks it's an iPhone or Android that only has one choice of OS or UI.