4 ms·

Please keep the success of HNM in mind the next time you hear "Pfft, who pays for information you could find free on the Internet." HN readers just like you als

by patio11 15y ago

Please keep the success of HNM in mind the next time you hear "Pfft, who pays for information you could find free on the Internet." HN readers just like you also do all sorts of weird things like paying money for software, paying money for services, paying money for media, etc etc. Also might be salutary to remember if sentiment runs, say, 10-1 against doing an idea: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1261499 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1261499 Congrats on the success, by the way.

alaskamiller 15y ago
Or if you really think about it... this idea survived long enough and got popular enough to support itself with just 5 out of every 100 people.
- ohgodthecat 15y ago
  It is probably supporting itself with the other 95 people just as much considering it isn't free for those people (unless of course they are under the year free subscribtion for students that he was offering). There would also be revenue from the advertisements in the magazine. This idea really survives because there is a market for curated content presented in a visually pleasing manner.
taylorbuley 15y ago
A difference between this curated magazine and other publishers that balk at putting content online for the reason you state is that the information used here by HNM was already published by the time of print. Content is expensive, depreciates after publish time and the majority of its value is realized within moments of publication. Here the content (though here not design) is cheap and its co-branding with Hacker News is free. It's a great model for new business models that skirt content creation or bolt-on groups inside big publishers, but I don't think it's too valuable a comparison when dealing with publishers whose key differentiation is a particular editorial slant on content creation.
- itmag 15y ago
  Content is expensive, depreciates after publish time and the majority of its value is realized within moments of publication. I don't know if that's always true. I've never paid for an article and we only use 100% original content (ie was written for us first and foremost). Also, no one says the content has to depreciate. I just looked through some back issues, and there's lots of stuff I would want to (re-)read again. For example: Cyberpunk tribes: From networks to phyles Picking up girls with the 8 circuit model Self Development Ninja Style On the awesome meaninglessness of life Mind hacking: 3 ways to increase your intelligence How to not fail at New year’s resolutions The Hackerspace as bat-cave and lifestyle-lab How to arouse a woman Designing your life and living your dreams The Memory palace: A venerable technique for remembering historic dates, your shopping list and phone numbers of random girls You just gotta focus on timeless topics like, uh, personal development, ninjas, and picking up girls :p
bearwithclaws 15y ago
Thanks, Patrick!
itmag 15y ago
"Pfft, who pays for information you could find free on the Internet." I'm in exactly that boat, as I run a magazine as well and have been thinking those thoughts. I even use the same print on demand company as HNM (Magcloud). Seeing this I'm much more interested in trying to make some money. Any ideas are much welcome! :)
- itmag 15y ago
  Twenty-one issues later, the magazine has about 4,700 subscribers worldwide, Lim said. Annual subscriptions cost $88 for the print edition or $29 for the digital .mobi/.epub/.pdf bundle. Only five percent of subscribers get the print version, he said, but that’s still a tidy sum of about $20,000 on top of an estimated $130,000 in subscriptions per year. He also sells full-page ads. Holy fuck! I'm beginning to see that I have some SERIOUS limiting beliefs about the possibility of making money like this. I've never made a single dollar because I didn't even think it was worth trying. Serious inspiration value here! If I had that kind of money coming in I could release an issue every month, easy peasy (getting the content has never been the bottleneck for me, rather it's the graphic design side of things (I use a volunteer who works for free in her spare time)). Anyone who has any input on how to monetize my magazine, please contact me now!
  - timharding 15y ago
    Charge money for it. Charge money for advertising in it.
    - itmag 15y ago
      How about this: Keep the PDFs free to download. Have a Member's Support Brigade (stolen concept from thesurvivalpodcast.com) which includes free e-books from other people and coupons for other people's products. Charge for print copies. Sell a subsciption which gives you a special Ipad version or whatever. Put in ads. Sell a "best of" volume via Lulu.com. Make our own spin-off e-books and sell. Merchandise (t-shirts, stickers, etc). Amazon store (books we recommend, stuff like that). Use kickstarter.com to raise money for specific sub-projects (like "start a hackerspace"). Any more ideas?
revorad 15y ago
Patrick, at the risk of sounding ungrateful to all your help, I'd like to point out that HNM's success is also a good counterpoint to the advice you give again and again - "Don't make stuff for 20-something Cauc(asian) dudes. It has no hope of making money." In this particular instance, it appears to make more than software for schoolmarms. _By selling the dudes' own words back to them, nonetheless!_ The more advice I read, the more I'm convinced that if you're in the business of making new things that haven't been done before, ignore all advice. Just fucking do it.
- patio11 15y ago
  I don't recall saying you can't make money selling to the usual suspects. Clearly you can -- that is why they're the usual suspects. I just don't think it is a particularly wise move when more attractive markets abound. I don't think that comparing BCC to HNM provides meaningful signal on that question. (Philosophically, by the way, when somebody mentions that X makes more than me my first thought is "Ooh, congrats!" and I don't usually bother with a second thought.)
  - revorad 15y ago
    My comparison was crude. I know there are finer nuances, such as BCC income probably being much more passive than HNM. I just don't think it is a particularly wise move when more attractive markets abound. The irony of that coming from the maker of bingo software is not lost on me :-P In any case, I'm sorry if I misunderstood and misrepresented your advice. EDIT: It occurred to me that my snide remark regarding the irony could also do with a disclaimer. I'm implying that you yourself chose BCC over other attractive markets. However, I know you did that at a time it made sense to you given your circumstances. You have since moved towards more attractive markets (AR). This example clearly highlights the problem with advice. Unless it is seen in the context of the adviser's whole spectrum of experience, it can be really misleading and confusing.

by patio11 15y ago

alaskamiller 15y ago

Or if you really think about it... this idea survived long enough and got popular enough to support itself with just 5 out of every 100 people.

ohgodthecat 15y ago
It is probably supporting itself with the other 95 people just as much considering it isn't free for those people (unless of course they are under the year free subscribtion for students that he was offering). There would also be revenue from the advertisements in the magazine. This idea really survives because there is a market for curated content presented in a visually pleasing manner.

taylorbuley 15y ago

A difference between this curated magazine and other publishers that balk at putting content online for the reason you state is that the information used here by HNM was already published by the time of print. Content is expensive, depreciates after publish time and the majority of its value is realized within moments of publication. Here the content (though here not design) is cheap and its co-branding with Hacker News is free. It's a great model for new business models that skirt content creation or bolt-on groups inside big publishers, but I don't think it's too valuable a comparison when dealing with publishers whose key differentiation is a particular editorial slant on content creation.

itmag 15y ago
Content is expensive, depreciates after publish time and the majority of its value is realized within moments of publication. I don't know if that's always true. I've never paid for an article and we only use 100% original content (ie was written for us first and foremost). Also, no one says the content has to depreciate. I just looked through some back issues, and there's lots of stuff I would want to (re-)read again. For example: Cyberpunk tribes: From networks to phyles Picking up girls with the 8 circuit model Self Development Ninja Style On the awesome meaninglessness of life Mind hacking: 3 ways to increase your intelligence How to not fail at New year’s resolutions The Hackerspace as bat-cave and lifestyle-lab How to arouse a woman Designing your life and living your dreams The Memory palace: A venerable technique for remembering historic dates, your shopping list and phone numbers of random girls You just gotta focus on timeless topics like, uh, personal development, ninjas, and picking up girls :p

bearwithclaws 15y ago

Thanks, Patrick!

itmag 15y ago

"Pfft, who pays for information you could find free on the Internet." I'm in exactly that boat, as I run a magazine as well and have been thinking those thoughts. I even use the same print on demand company as HNM (Magcloud). Seeing this I'm much more interested in trying to make some money. Any ideas are much welcome! :)

itmag 15y ago
Twenty-one issues later, the magazine has about 4,700 subscribers worldwide, Lim said. Annual subscriptions cost $88 for the print edition or $29 for the digital .mobi/.epub/.pdf bundle. Only five percent of subscribers get the print version, he said, but that’s still a tidy sum of about $20,000 on top of an estimated $130,000 in subscriptions per year. He also sells full-page ads. Holy fuck! I'm beginning to see that I have some SERIOUS limiting beliefs about the possibility of making money like this. I've never made a single dollar because I didn't even think it was worth trying. Serious inspiration value here! If I had that kind of money coming in I could release an issue every month, easy peasy (getting the content has never been the bottleneck for me, rather it's the graphic design side of things (I use a volunteer who works for free in her spare time)). Anyone who has any input on how to monetize my magazine, please contact me now!
- timharding 15y ago
  Charge money for it. Charge money for advertising in it.
  - itmag 15y ago
    How about this: Keep the PDFs free to download. Have a Member's Support Brigade (stolen concept from thesurvivalpodcast.com) which includes free e-books from other people and coupons for other people's products. Charge for print copies. Sell a subsciption which gives you a special Ipad version or whatever. Put in ads. Sell a "best of" volume via Lulu.com. Make our own spin-off e-books and sell. Merchandise (t-shirts, stickers, etc). Amazon store (books we recommend, stuff like that). Use kickstarter.com to raise money for specific sub-projects (like "start a hackerspace"). Any more ideas?

revorad 15y ago

Patrick, at the risk of sounding ungrateful to all your help, I'd like to point out that HNM's success is also a good counterpoint to the advice you give again and again - "Don't make stuff for 20-something Cauc(asian) dudes. It has no hope of making money." In this particular instance, it appears to make more than software for schoolmarms. _By selling the dudes' own words back to them, nonetheless!_ The more advice I read, the more I'm convinced that if you're in the business of making new things that haven't been done before, ignore all advice. Just fucking do it.

patio11 15y ago
I don't recall saying you can't make money selling to the usual suspects. Clearly you can -- that is why they're the usual suspects. I just don't think it is a particularly wise move when more attractive markets abound. I don't think that comparing BCC to HNM provides meaningful signal on that question. (Philosophically, by the way, when somebody mentions that X makes more than me my first thought is "Ooh, congrats!" and I don't usually bother with a second thought.)
- revorad 15y ago
  My comparison was crude. I know there are finer nuances, such as BCC income probably being much more passive than HNM. I just don't think it is a particularly wise move when more attractive markets abound. The irony of that coming from the maker of bingo software is not lost on me :-P In any case, I'm sorry if I misunderstood and misrepresented your advice. EDIT: It occurred to me that my snide remark regarding the irony could also do with a disclaimer. I'm implying that you yourself chose BCC over other attractive markets. However, I know you did that at a time it made sense to you given your circumstances. You have since moved towards more attractive markets (AR). This example clearly highlights the problem with advice. Unless it is seen in the context of the adviser's whole spectrum of experience, it can be really misleading and confusing.