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The load is spread out in a completely different way than gas, because 100% of gas cars get gas at a station, while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home (

by wilg 3y ago

The load is spread out in a completely different way than gas, because 100% of gas cars get gas at a station, while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home (or work or whatever). Fast chargers are for road-trips only. Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy we will need infrastructure investment. Worrying that it's not already there makes no sense. The demand for improved electrical infrastructure will be a forcing function. There's no need to wait for it. But again, most charging isn't fast charging and likely never will be. (Charging for apartments and stuff still has a bit of a way to go, so sometimes those people use fast chargers as part of their regular routine, but the solution to that is easy and underway: just put chargers in the apartment parking lot and/or on the streets.)

Alupis 3y ago
> Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. They sound great - but if you dig into where all the materials come from, it's shocking how externalized we've made that problem. It might be cleaner by time you get to drive it... but it's not cleaner to produce and operate, and in fact may be worse in some cases. Emissions aren't just from the tailpipe after all - yet that appears to be what most people focus on. > Worrying that it's not already there makes no sense It makes a lot of sense when the government (both state and federal) are pushing initiatives and incentives to force EV's into commonplace. Our infra just cannot handle it, even with trickle chargers like you've claimed. Which means it will be a net-worse experience for people, and they will resist future clean energy pushes as being disingenuous.
- wilg 3y ago
  > It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. No, it is extremely clear. Including manufacturing they are cleaner than gas cars. And they will get better over time as the grid greens and as batteries become made out of more recycled materials. The batteries are 99% recyclable into new batteries and so there is a point where new materials never need to come out of the ground. Also, if you only focus on the most pressing thing, greenhouse emissions, the story is even better. > Our infra just cannot handle it Yes it can. There have been ~zero issues with the grid as a result of EV adoption.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    This is some very optimistic thinking. I'm afraid it just doesn't match with the realities though.
    - wilg 3y ago
      The reality of the cleanliness of these cars is accurate. Future projections are educated guesses.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Popular media focuses on emissions. Researchers consider the entire lifecycle: https://electrek.co/2022/03/04/light-duty-evs-have-64-lower-life-cycle-emissions-than-ice-vehicles-ford-study/ https://electrek.co/2022/03/04/light-duty-evs-have-64-lower-... EVs still win.
- survirtual 3y ago
  Short sighted and painfully false. The major points have already been refuted by another poster. I want to just add that I can't comprehend how anyone could think taking a dump on all our lungs at every road is a good idea. In the future, people will look at it like the middle ages dumping all their human waste on the streets out their windows. In that same future, lung-related problems will nearly disappear as these toxic emissions cease to exist. Centralizing dirty energy generation allows better regulation and control of it. It also allows converting that dirty energy to clean energy without any friction from consumers. You can power an EV using coal. You can also power it using nuclear or solar. What options to power a gasoline car do you have? EVs also force the improvement of the power grid to be more resilient and modernized, instead of stagnant and lazy, to be sucked dry. It is shocking how externalized the costs are with our reliance on oil -- technological stagnation, toxic fumes everywhere, literally heating of the entire planet, funding of backwards authoritarian governments, and the NOISE! Only a fool would support the continued usage of oil when EVs exist now.
- somewhat_drunk 3y ago
  >It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. No, it really isn't. Google it, and ignore right-wing sources, which are more often than not complete garbage these days.
- iknowstuff 3y ago
  So previous commenters have presented some facts for you. But since human brains tend to reject facts when they don't match their world view, I am curious - have you changed your stance, or continue to believe what you said?
dmitrygr 3y ago
> while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home Suure... because 80% of people own a home where they can do heavy electrical modifications, and can afford the permits and the work. Not sure where you think that is, but in USA that it not even remotely true.
- survirtual 3y ago
  What you just said is very false. Do you have a 120v outlet? Congrats, you can charge at home in ~40 hours for a full charge. Do you have a 240v outlet? Congrats, you can charge at home in ~7 hours for a full charge (otherwise know as while sleeping). Sure is difficult to get around town waking up with ~300 miles of range everyday!
  - Alupis 3y ago
    Majority of US homes do not have an abundance of 240v outlets - meaning your 40 hour charge is a non-starter for everyone but those in high income brackets and ability to modify their homes (ie. non-renters).
    - survirtual 3y ago
      My parents added a 50amp, 240v plug for me to charge when I visit for a whopping $250. That would surely break most Americans bank!
- recursive 3y ago
  > because 80% of people own a home where they can do heavy electrical modifications, and can afford the permits and the work. Probably not. The modifications aren't that heavy, and aren't even always necessary. But 80% of EV owners probably do.

by wilg 3y ago

Alupis 3y ago

> Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. They sound great - but if you dig into where all the materials come from, it's shocking how externalized we've made that problem. It might be cleaner by time you get to drive it... but it's not cleaner to produce and operate, and in fact may be worse in some cases. Emissions aren't just from the tailpipe after all - yet that appears to be what most people focus on. > Worrying that it's not already there makes no sense It makes a lot of sense when the government (both state and federal) are pushing initiatives and incentives to force EV's into commonplace. Our infra just cannot handle it, even with trickle chargers like you've claimed. Which means it will be a net-worse experience for people, and they will resist future clean energy pushes as being disingenuous.

wilg 3y ago
> It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. No, it is extremely clear. Including manufacturing they are cleaner than gas cars. And they will get better over time as the grid greens and as batteries become made out of more recycled materials. The batteries are 99% recyclable into new batteries and so there is a point where new materials never need to come out of the ground. Also, if you only focus on the most pressing thing, greenhouse emissions, the story is even better. > Our infra just cannot handle it Yes it can. There have been ~zero issues with the grid as a result of EV adoption.
- Alupis 3y ago
  This is some very optimistic thinking. I'm afraid it just doesn't match with the realities though.
  - wilg 3y ago
    The reality of the cleanliness of these cars is accurate. Future projections are educated guesses.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
Popular media focuses on emissions. Researchers consider the entire lifecycle: https://electrek.co/2022/03/04/light-duty-evs-have-64-lower-life-cycle-emissions-than-ice-vehicles-ford-study/ https://electrek.co/2022/03/04/light-duty-evs-have-64-lower-... EVs still win.
survirtual 3y ago
Short sighted and painfully false. The major points have already been refuted by another poster. I want to just add that I can't comprehend how anyone could think taking a dump on all our lungs at every road is a good idea. In the future, people will look at it like the middle ages dumping all their human waste on the streets out their windows. In that same future, lung-related problems will nearly disappear as these toxic emissions cease to exist. Centralizing dirty energy generation allows better regulation and control of it. It also allows converting that dirty energy to clean energy without any friction from consumers. You can power an EV using coal. You can also power it using nuclear or solar. What options to power a gasoline car do you have? EVs also force the improvement of the power grid to be more resilient and modernized, instead of stagnant and lazy, to be sucked dry. It is shocking how externalized the costs are with our reliance on oil -- technological stagnation, toxic fumes everywhere, literally heating of the entire planet, funding of backwards authoritarian governments, and the NOISE! Only a fool would support the continued usage of oil when EVs exist now.
somewhat_drunk 3y ago
>It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. No, it really isn't. Google it, and ignore right-wing sources, which are more often than not complete garbage these days.
iknowstuff 3y ago
So previous commenters have presented some facts for you. But since human brains tend to reject facts when they don't match their world view, I am curious - have you changed your stance, or continue to believe what you said?

dmitrygr 3y ago

> while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home Suure... because 80% of people own a home where they can do heavy electrical modifications, and can afford the permits and the work. Not sure where you think that is, but in USA that it not even remotely true.

survirtual 3y ago
What you just said is very false. Do you have a 120v outlet? Congrats, you can charge at home in ~40 hours for a full charge. Do you have a 240v outlet? Congrats, you can charge at home in ~7 hours for a full charge (otherwise know as while sleeping). Sure is difficult to get around town waking up with ~300 miles of range everyday!
- Alupis 3y ago
  Majority of US homes do not have an abundance of 240v outlets - meaning your 40 hour charge is a non-starter for everyone but those in high income brackets and ability to modify their homes (ie. non-renters).
  - survirtual 3y ago
    My parents added a 50amp, 240v plug for me to charge when I visit for a whopping $250. That would surely break most Americans bank!
recursive 3y ago
> because 80% of people own a home where they can do heavy electrical modifications, and can afford the permits and the work. Probably not. The modifications aren't that heavy, and aren't even always necessary. But 80% of EV owners probably do.