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But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate.

recursive 3y ago
The fastest chargers today are CCS.
- kristofferR 3y ago
  It's a wash, basically. The fastest CCS chargers are ~360KW, and Tesla Supercharger V4 will apparently support 350KW within a year.
  - recursive 3y ago
    Tesla always gets credit for stuff they're about to do. And half the time they don't seem to end up doing it. Or hit their dates. Don't get me wrong. Tesla has some great chargers. But they're great on their actual merits.
  - deadbunny 3y ago
    Wait. It's a wash because CCS tech which has been out for like 5 years is comparable to some future Tesla project? Tesla the company who have consistently missed fantasy deadlines set by the edgelord-in-chief?
    - pnpnp 3y ago
      Not that you’re wrong about self driving, but they have been light years ahead of the competition in other areas. I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses.
      - recursive 3y ago
        > I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses. It's absolutely fair. These are separate statements, and they're both true. Tesla has missed "some" (only some?) deadlines. And they've also brought EVs to the public. It's completely fair to say these because they're true.
      - nameistaken 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - BluePen7 3y ago
        As a Tesla owner I agree they've accomplished a lot, but they've also promised us the world, by yesterday. Until something is delivered, and bug-free, I don't really believe anything they say. They've done a lot, but their word is next to worthless.
        pnpnp 3y ago
        I totally agree. I don't think there would be a push for NACS from other automakers if it isn't better, royalty free, and completely open. I have Starlink as well - over promised, and under delivered _but_ it currently still has no competition in my area. The difference is that Tesla now has competition, but they did still have some good ideas. If NACS really is open and free, I don't see the big deal.
- drewg123 3y ago
  When the 350KW chargers are online and working, which is apparently not often, which is why this move to NACS is happening. Only Tesla is motivated to run a reliable network. The other problem with 350KW CCS chargers is that they are often clogged by slower charging cars that can't take advantage of the higher charging rate. Watch one of the "Out Of Spec [Motoring|Reviews|Podcast]" YouTube channels to see examples of this on their EV road trips. This whole thing reminds me of the ancient unix story of the DoD test of TCP/IP implementations, where they were deciding between the BBN stack and the Berkley (BSD) stack. The result was something like, "The BBN stack starts off much faster, but it crashes often and the machines take so long to reboot, so on average, the BSD stack is faster". Kirk McKusick tells the story far better... https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecPodcast https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecPodcast
  - recursive 3y ago
    I think reliability is a lot more important than speed. I understand the benefits of the SuperChargers. But I was responding to a comment that said this: > But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? Of all the problems with CCS, speed isn't really one of them.
iknowstuff 3y ago
The connector is open. Obviously the producer of the charging station can always determine the charge rate regardless of the connector, which is why most EA stations sit out there in a half broken state limited to 120kW.
- franckl 3y ago
  I would be happy to have that. Most of the time it is 50 to 90kW at the 2 EA stations I use in Texas
MetaWhirledPeas 3y ago
> But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate. Tesla is supporting CCS because that's what the bureaucratic funding dictates, not because anyone believes CCS will succeed. They will (and should) do the bare minimum.
- canadianfella 3y ago
  [dead]
neon_electro 3y ago
The car is ultimately the limiting factor on charge rate, not the connector.

recursive 3y ago

The fastest chargers today are CCS.

kristofferR 3y ago
It's a wash, basically. The fastest CCS chargers are ~360KW, and Tesla Supercharger V4 will apparently support 350KW within a year.
- recursive 3y ago
  Tesla always gets credit for stuff they're about to do. And half the time they don't seem to end up doing it. Or hit their dates. Don't get me wrong. Tesla has some great chargers. But they're great on their actual merits.
- deadbunny 3y ago
  Wait. It's a wash because CCS tech which has been out for like 5 years is comparable to some future Tesla project? Tesla the company who have consistently missed fantasy deadlines set by the edgelord-in-chief?
  - pnpnp 3y ago
    Not that you’re wrong about self driving, but they have been light years ahead of the competition in other areas. I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses.
    - recursive 3y ago
      > I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses. It's absolutely fair. These are separate statements, and they're both true. Tesla has missed "some" (only some?) deadlines. And they've also brought EVs to the public. It's completely fair to say these because they're true.
    - nameistaken 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - BluePen7 3y ago
      As a Tesla owner I agree they've accomplished a lot, but they've also promised us the world, by yesterday. Until something is delivered, and bug-free, I don't really believe anything they say. They've done a lot, but their word is next to worthless.
      - pnpnp 3y ago
        I totally agree. I don't think there would be a push for NACS from other automakers if it isn't better, royalty free, and completely open. I have Starlink as well - over promised, and under delivered _but_ it currently still has no competition in my area. The difference is that Tesla now has competition, but they did still have some good ideas. If NACS really is open and free, I don't see the big deal.
drewg123 3y ago
When the 350KW chargers are online and working, which is apparently not often, which is why this move to NACS is happening. Only Tesla is motivated to run a reliable network. The other problem with 350KW CCS chargers is that they are often clogged by slower charging cars that can't take advantage of the higher charging rate. Watch one of the "Out Of Spec [Motoring|Reviews|Podcast]" YouTube channels to see examples of this on their EV road trips. This whole thing reminds me of the ancient unix story of the DoD test of TCP/IP implementations, where they were deciding between the BBN stack and the Berkley (BSD) stack. The result was something like, "The BBN stack starts off much faster, but it crashes often and the machines take so long to reboot, so on average, the BSD stack is faster". Kirk McKusick tells the story far better... https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecPodcast https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecPodcast
- recursive 3y ago
  I think reliability is a lot more important than speed. I understand the benefits of the SuperChargers. But I was responding to a comment that said this: > But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? Of all the problems with CCS, speed isn't really one of them.

iknowstuff 3y ago

The connector is open. Obviously the producer of the charging station can always determine the charge rate regardless of the connector, which is why most EA stations sit out there in a half broken state limited to 120kW.

franckl 3y ago
I would be happy to have that. Most of the time it is 50 to 90kW at the 2 EA stations I use in Texas

MetaWhirledPeas 3y ago

> But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate. Tesla is supporting CCS because that's what the bureaucratic funding dictates, not because anyone believes CCS will succeed. They will (and should) do the bare minimum.

canadianfella 3y ago
[dead]

neon_electro 3y ago

The car is ultimately the limiting factor on charge rate, not the connector.