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>I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection That is exactly why this is happening. Tesla is expanding their network and openi

>I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection That is exactly why this is happening. Tesla is expanding their network and opening it to more manufacturers in pursuit of a $7.5bn federal funding program.[0] >the new rules, issued after nearly eight months of debate...seeks to give consumers unfettered access to a growing coast-to-coast network of EV charging stations, including Tesla's Superchargers. >Companies that hope to tap $7.5 billion in federal funding for this network must also adopt the dominant U.S. standard for charging connectors, known as "Combined Charging System" or CCS; use standardized payment options; a single method of identification that works across all chargers; and work 97% of the time. Interesting enough, Tesla is (currently) obliged to add CCS compatibility to their chargers for eligibility, but these manufacturers are adopting their connector regardless. >The new rules would allow Tesla to keep its unique connectors, but it will have to add a permanently attached CCS connector or adapter that charges a CCS-compliant vehicle, similar to a gas pump that has a separate handle for gas versus diesel. [0]https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-biden-ev-charger-rules-stress-made-america-force-tesla-changes-2023-02-15/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-bi...

nilsbunger 3y ago
But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate.
- recursive 3y ago
  The fastest chargers today are CCS.
  - kristofferR 3y ago
    It's a wash, basically. The fastest CCS chargers are ~360KW, and Tesla Supercharger V4 will apparently support 350KW within a year.
    - recursive 3y ago
      Tesla always gets credit for stuff they're about to do. And half the time they don't seem to end up doing it. Or hit their dates. Don't get me wrong. Tesla has some great chargers. But they're great on their actual merits.
    - deadbunny 3y ago
      Wait. It's a wash because CCS tech which has been out for like 5 years is comparable to some future Tesla project? Tesla the company who have consistently missed fantasy deadlines set by the edgelord-in-chief?
      - pnpnp 3y ago
        Not that you’re wrong about self driving, but they have been light years ahead of the competition in other areas. I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses.
        recursive 3y ago
        > I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses. It's absolutely fair. These are separate statements, and they're both true. Tesla has missed "some" (only some?) deadlines. And they've also brought EVs to the public. It's completely fair to say these because they're true.
        nameistaken 3y ago
        [flagged]
        BluePen7 3y ago
        As a Tesla owner I agree they've accomplished a lot, but they've also promised us the world, by yesterday. Until something is delivered, and bug-free, I don't really believe anything they say. They've done a lot, but their word is next to worthless.
  - drewg123 3y ago
    When the 350KW chargers are online and working, which is apparently not often, which is why this move to NACS is happening. Only Tesla is motivated to run a reliable network. The other problem with 350KW CCS chargers is that they are often clogged by slower charging cars that can't take advantage of the higher charging rate. Watch one of the "Out Of Spec [Motoring|Reviews|Podcast]" YouTube channels to see examples of this on their EV road trips. This whole thing reminds me of the ancient unix story of the DoD test of TCP/IP implementations, where they were deciding between the BBN stack and the Berkley (BSD) stack. The result was something like, "The BBN stack starts off much faster, but it crashes often and the machines take so long to reboot, so on average, the BSD stack is faster". Kirk McKusick tells the story far better... https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecPodcast https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecPodcast
    - recursive 3y ago
      I think reliability is a lot more important than speed. I understand the benefits of the SuperChargers. But I was responding to a comment that said this: > But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? Of all the problems with CCS, speed isn't really one of them.
- iknowstuff 3y ago
  The connector is open. Obviously the producer of the charging station can always determine the charge rate regardless of the connector, which is why most EA stations sit out there in a half broken state limited to 120kW.
  - franckl 3y ago
    I would be happy to have that. Most of the time it is 50 to 90kW at the 2 EA stations I use in Texas
- MetaWhirledPeas 3y ago
  > But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate. Tesla is supporting CCS because that's what the bureaucratic funding dictates, not because anyone believes CCS will succeed. They will (and should) do the bare minimum.
  - canadianfella 3y ago
    [dead]
- neon_electro 3y ago
  The car is ultimately the limiting factor on charge rate, not the connector.
mkozlows 3y ago
But to be clear, that's not what this news is about. This news is about Tesla's push to get other companies to sign onto their previously-proprietary, still-Tesla-controlled "NACS" standard, en route to pushing the government to change the rules to allow NACS-only chargers and remove the CCS restriction.
jxf 3y ago
Q: what does "must work 97% of the time" mean? Like, 97% availability?
- hinkley 3y ago
  Sounds like “10 million stranded Americans per day” to me. I hope the actual document is more rigorous than the summary, but then we all know how these things tend to play out.
  - jxf 3y ago
    Well, for example, many gas pumps aren't 24/7, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were less than 97% availability.

nilsbunger 3y ago

But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate.

recursive 3y ago
The fastest chargers today are CCS.
- kristofferR 3y ago
  It's a wash, basically. The fastest CCS chargers are ~360KW, and Tesla Supercharger V4 will apparently support 350KW within a year.
  - recursive 3y ago
    Tesla always gets credit for stuff they're about to do. And half the time they don't seem to end up doing it. Or hit their dates. Don't get me wrong. Tesla has some great chargers. But they're great on their actual merits.
  - deadbunny 3y ago
    Wait. It's a wash because CCS tech which has been out for like 5 years is comparable to some future Tesla project? Tesla the company who have consistently missed fantasy deadlines set by the edgelord-in-chief?
    - pnpnp 3y ago
      Not that you’re wrong about self driving, but they have been light years ahead of the competition in other areas. I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses.
      - recursive 3y ago
        > I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses. It's absolutely fair. These are separate statements, and they're both true. Tesla has missed "some" (only some?) deadlines. And they've also brought EVs to the public. It's completely fair to say these because they're true.
      - nameistaken 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - BluePen7 3y ago
        As a Tesla owner I agree they've accomplished a lot, but they've also promised us the world, by yesterday. Until something is delivered, and bug-free, I don't really believe anything they say. They've done a lot, but their word is next to worthless.
- drewg123 3y ago
  When the 350KW chargers are online and working, which is apparently not often, which is why this move to NACS is happening. Only Tesla is motivated to run a reliable network. The other problem with 350KW CCS chargers is that they are often clogged by slower charging cars that can't take advantage of the higher charging rate. Watch one of the "Out Of Spec [Motoring|Reviews|Podcast]" YouTube channels to see examples of this on their EV road trips. This whole thing reminds me of the ancient unix story of the DoD test of TCP/IP implementations, where they were deciding between the BBN stack and the Berkley (BSD) stack. The result was something like, "The BBN stack starts off much faster, but it crashes often and the machines take so long to reboot, so on average, the BSD stack is faster". Kirk McKusick tells the story far better... https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecPodcast https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecPodcast
  - recursive 3y ago
    I think reliability is a lot more important than speed. I understand the benefits of the SuperChargers. But I was responding to a comment that said this: > But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? Of all the problems with CCS, speed isn't really one of them.
iknowstuff 3y ago
The connector is open. Obviously the producer of the charging station can always determine the charge rate regardless of the connector, which is why most EA stations sit out there in a half broken state limited to 120kW.
- franckl 3y ago
  I would be happy to have that. Most of the time it is 50 to 90kW at the 2 EA stations I use in Texas
MetaWhirledPeas 3y ago
> But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate. Tesla is supporting CCS because that's what the bureaucratic funding dictates, not because anyone believes CCS will succeed. They will (and should) do the bare minimum.
- canadianfella 3y ago
  [dead]
neon_electro 3y ago
The car is ultimately the limiting factor on charge rate, not the connector.

mkozlows 3y ago

But to be clear, that's not what this news is about. This news is about Tesla's push to get other companies to sign onto their previously-proprietary, still-Tesla-controlled "NACS" standard, en route to pushing the government to change the rules to allow NACS-only chargers and remove the CCS restriction.

jxf 3y ago

Q: what does "must work 97% of the time" mean? Like, 97% availability?

hinkley 3y ago
Sounds like “10 million stranded Americans per day” to me. I hope the actual document is more rigorous than the summary, but then we all know how these things tend to play out.
- jxf 3y ago
  Well, for example, many gas pumps aren't 24/7, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were less than 97% availability.