3 ms·

I’m not clear from the article. Was there a warning light to not go near the plane, but the user ignored and got sucked in? Or was something wonky with the warn

I’m not clear from the article. Was there a warning light to not go near the plane, but the user ignored and got sucked in? Or was something wonky with the warning light. I think the behaviors should be a bit different in those two cases.

bombcar 3y ago
Either way I could see OSHA dropping a fine - because either the equipment wasn't working correctly, which is a violation, or the policies weren't correct, which is a violation, or they had an employee who would do stupid things, which is a violation.
i_am_jl 3y ago
I'm more curious about this "Don't approach a plane until the beacon light turns off" system. Is this standardized or widely used? Because it sounds like a terrible design. If you've got one signal light to signal the state of a system it should turn on when safe and off when unsafe, so when the light is obscured or the lamp fails someone doesn't walk into a running jet engine. To be clear I don't have any information that's not in the article. I don't know if there was a system failure or what the nature of that failure might be. All I'm saying is that the description of a procedure where a people approach jets when the you're-in-mortal-peril-light goes out gives me goosebumps. My entirely uninformed opinion is that OSHA might feel the same way.
- kotaKat 3y ago
  Beacon on at engine start is standard procedure for most if not all jets and is ingrained into people's heads that you do not enter the danger zone if that beacon is lit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-collision_light https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-collision_light
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    When my stove top is hot, the light is on. When the light is on, they are recording. Pretty typical ux.
  - i_am_jl 3y ago
    That seems a bit confused, no? I mean, I'm not arguing with the usefulness of a big, bright beacon that says "DANGER". I'm just sort of shocked that... that's it? No positive confirmation that it's actually safe? Just the lack of a danger signal? If I lived in a place that signaled traffic with a red light for stop and no light for go, I would drive a lot less.
- genocidicbunny 3y ago
  I think it's pretty much standard practice in American and European commercial aviation, but I don't know about everywhere else.
genocidicbunny 3y ago
From what I recall reading about the incident when it happened, the airplane did have the usual red beacon lights that normally indicate that the engines are running, and the crew that the woman was a part of had received multiple briefings about both safety around running engines, and this specific airplane. The airplane had a non-functional APU, so they kept the engines running longer on the ground until they could get connected to ground power. Normally with an APU operable, the flight crew could start shutting down the engines much sooner, such that it would not have been nearly as hazardous to the ground crew. That's probably what any sort of civil suit will go after -- if AA had spent the time and money to have the APU fixed sooner, the dangerous situation could have been prevented and the woman that was killed might still be alive.

bombcar 3y ago

Either way I could see OSHA dropping a fine - because either the equipment wasn't working correctly, which is a violation, or the policies weren't correct, which is a violation, or they had an employee who would do stupid things, which is a violation.

i_am_jl 3y ago

I'm more curious about this "Don't approach a plane until the beacon light turns off" system. Is this standardized or widely used? Because it sounds like a terrible design. If you've got one signal light to signal the state of a system it should turn on when safe and off when unsafe, so when the light is obscured or the lamp fails someone doesn't walk into a running jet engine. To be clear I don't have any information that's not in the article. I don't know if there was a system failure or what the nature of that failure might be. All I'm saying is that the description of a procedure where a people approach jets when the you're-in-mortal-peril-light goes out gives me goosebumps. My entirely uninformed opinion is that OSHA might feel the same way.

kotaKat 3y ago
Beacon on at engine start is standard procedure for most if not all jets and is ingrained into people's heads that you do not enter the danger zone if that beacon is lit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-collision_light https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-collision_light
- willcipriano 3y ago
  When my stove top is hot, the light is on. When the light is on, they are recording. Pretty typical ux.
- i_am_jl 3y ago
  That seems a bit confused, no? I mean, I'm not arguing with the usefulness of a big, bright beacon that says "DANGER". I'm just sort of shocked that... that's it? No positive confirmation that it's actually safe? Just the lack of a danger signal? If I lived in a place that signaled traffic with a red light for stop and no light for go, I would drive a lot less.
genocidicbunny 3y ago
I think it's pretty much standard practice in American and European commercial aviation, but I don't know about everywhere else.

genocidicbunny 3y ago

From what I recall reading about the incident when it happened, the airplane did have the usual red beacon lights that normally indicate that the engines are running, and the crew that the woman was a part of had received multiple briefings about both safety around running engines, and this specific airplane. The airplane had a non-functional APU, so they kept the engines running longer on the ground until they could get connected to ground power. Normally with an APU operable, the flight crew could start shutting down the engines much sooner, such that it would not have been nearly as hazardous to the ground crew. That's probably what any sort of civil suit will go after -- if AA had spent the time and money to have the APU fixed sooner, the dangerous situation could have been prevented and the woman that was killed might still be alive.