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NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
> Stereotypically college-educated This seems unlikely, as we all know that the more education a person receives, the more informed they are, the more capable of rational assessment of the world around them.
- philomath_mn 3y ago
  I have not found this to be true. In an idealized case, I'd agree, but our institutions don't seem to be emphasizing "rational assessment" as an important skill. In fact there may be a slightly negative correlation because some experts spend so much time on their pet-topic that they end up rationalizing why their preferred evidence is better than the contradicting evidence (basically boosted confirmation bias)
- chongli 3y ago
  This seems unlikely, as we all know that the more education a person receives, the more informed they are, the more capable of rational assessment of the world around them. I don't know how to say this without sounding glib, but I honestly cannot tell if your comment is sarcasm. Poe's law [1] applies. There are tons of college-educated people who are utterly incapable of critical thinking. They parrot what their radical professors told them. They don't know anything about statistics or philosophy or how to rationally criticize an argument. They just repeat talking anti-Western talking points. For them, the grass is greener on the other side of the world. They've never actually tried to live there, let alone talk to people from the authoritarian countries they idolize. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    I use a very simple heuristic when talking to that sort of person: "Why are people fleeing from your alleged paradise to an alleged criminal state? Why not the other way around? Get back to me when large numbers of Americans are fleeing to China to escape tyranny at home, search for new and better opportunities, etc."
    - atlantic 3y ago
      At the moment, we're seeing large numbers of older Americans settling in Europe, to flee political conditions in the US. So no, it's not unique to China.
    - LexiMax 3y ago
      > Get back to me when large numbers of Americans are fleeing to China to escape tyranny at home. This is actually happening here in the states: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/19/transgender-care-bans-cause-families-flee-other-states/70330832007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/19/transg... Depending on how the next few elections swing these families might not be safe anywhere in the continental US. They wouldn't be any safer in China, but this kind of tyranny can and does happen here at home.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
        [flagged]
        LexiMax 3y ago
        > Insane people want insane things occasionally The area of gender-affirming care is and has been well studied in both adults and teenagers by accredited doctors and pediatricians, and the preponderance of the evidence is firmly in the "pro" category. What trans-women truly want, aside from leading a happy and fulfilling life, is to continue to have access to the health care they need for survival, and for people with the ears of politicians to stop threatening them with either death or forced detransition. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-speaker-transgender-people-eradicated-1234690924/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-spe...
        NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
        > and the preponderance of the evidence is firmly in the "pro" category. That's sort of the problem though. You didn't say "according to our highly empirical and well-scrutinized methodology, the only objective conclusion possible is X". Instead, you use the word that, as best I understand the English language, signals political support. They could have saved themselves the effort of these "studies", if you ask me. These people already knew which conclusions they wanted to reach, and it does little to convince someone like myself. Not a big fan of the social pseudosciences. > is to continue to have access to the health care I've yet to see how anything you refer to is "health care" in any useful meaning of the word. On a good day, I might concede that it's close enough to cosmetic surgery to not nitpick that description. But on less generous days it's closer to tattoos/piercings. "I want my body to look like this" isn't health care. > they need for survival How is it necessary to their survival? "I'll hold myself hostage with threatened suicide" seems like a peculiar definition of "survival".
- 6510 3y ago
  There is this funny thing on wikipedia where highly educated people contribute a lot to articles in their field then accidentally end up on the wrong page and turn into the worse possible childish troll. Bit like the cliche joke about HN: Computer science makes people think they are an expert in all fields. Only without the civility.

[flagged]

> Stereotypically college-educated This seems unlikely, as we all know that the more education a person receives, the more informed they are, the more capable of rational assessment of the world around them.

philomath_mn 3y ago
I have not found this to be true. In an idealized case, I'd agree, but our institutions don't seem to be emphasizing "rational assessment" as an important skill. In fact there may be a slightly negative correlation because some experts spend so much time on their pet-topic that they end up rationalizing why their preferred evidence is better than the contradicting evidence (basically boosted confirmation bias)
chongli 3y ago
This seems unlikely, as we all know that the more education a person receives, the more informed they are, the more capable of rational assessment of the world around them. I don't know how to say this without sounding glib, but I honestly cannot tell if your comment is sarcasm. Poe's law [1] applies. There are tons of college-educated people who are utterly incapable of critical thinking. They parrot what their radical professors told them. They don't know anything about statistics or philosophy or how to rationally criticize an argument. They just repeat talking anti-Western talking points. For them, the grass is greener on the other side of the world. They've never actually tried to live there, let alone talk to people from the authoritarian countries they idolize. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
- EA-3167 3y ago
  I use a very simple heuristic when talking to that sort of person: "Why are people fleeing from your alleged paradise to an alleged criminal state? Why not the other way around? Get back to me when large numbers of Americans are fleeing to China to escape tyranny at home, search for new and better opportunities, etc."
  - atlantic 3y ago
    At the moment, we're seeing large numbers of older Americans settling in Europe, to flee political conditions in the US. So no, it's not unique to China.
  - LexiMax 3y ago
    > Get back to me when large numbers of Americans are fleeing to China to escape tyranny at home. This is actually happening here in the states: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/19/transgender-care-bans-cause-families-flee-other-states/70330832007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/19/transg... Depending on how the next few elections swing these families might not be safe anywhere in the continental US. They wouldn't be any safer in China, but this kind of tyranny can and does happen here at home.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - LexiMax 3y ago
        > Insane people want insane things occasionally The area of gender-affirming care is and has been well studied in both adults and teenagers by accredited doctors and pediatricians, and the preponderance of the evidence is firmly in the "pro" category. What trans-women truly want, aside from leading a happy and fulfilling life, is to continue to have access to the health care they need for survival, and for people with the ears of politicians to stop threatening them with either death or forced detransition. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-speaker-transgender-people-eradicated-1234690924/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-spe...
        NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
        > and the preponderance of the evidence is firmly in the "pro" category. That's sort of the problem though. You didn't say "according to our highly empirical and well-scrutinized methodology, the only objective conclusion possible is X". Instead, you use the word that, as best I understand the English language, signals political support. They could have saved themselves the effort of these "studies", if you ask me. These people already knew which conclusions they wanted to reach, and it does little to convince someone like myself. Not a big fan of the social pseudosciences. > is to continue to have access to the health care I've yet to see how anything you refer to is "health care" in any useful meaning of the word. On a good day, I might concede that it's close enough to cosmetic surgery to not nitpick that description. But on less generous days it's closer to tattoos/piercings. "I want my body to look like this" isn't health care. > they need for survival How is it necessary to their survival? "I'll hold myself hostage with threatened suicide" seems like a peculiar definition of "survival".
6510 3y ago
There is this funny thing on wikipedia where highly educated people contribute a lot to articles in their field then accidentally end up on the wrong page and turn into the worse possible childish troll. Bit like the cliche joke about HN: Computer science makes people think they are an expert in all fields. Only without the civility.