7 ms·

It's a lot older but I would say Vagrant intersects with this space https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant Possibly devenv,

by 22c 3y ago

It's a lot older but I would say Vagrant intersects with this space https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant Possibly devenv, as well.. Though I haven't personally tried it https://devenv.sh/ https://devenv.sh/

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
I've been using devenv for new projects. I like it so far. Some might find nix (which it requires) to be overkill, but I think that's underestimating how devilish of a problem it's solving.
- 22c 3y ago
  It seems more approachable than going down the NixOS rabbit hole. I haven't had a need to reach for it yet, but I will probably try it out at some point.
  - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
    I'd be cautious about thinking that you'll be able to use it for complex projects without eventually needing to enter the NixOS rabbit hole. This hasn't happened to me yet on a project that I'm using devnenv with, but while using nix flakes I've found weirdness in nipkgs that I wanted to address. On the other hand, the ability to put non python deps in a place that feels like a venv... feels pretty magical.
    - 22c 3y ago
      Yes for Python it seems to sit between a blurry midpoint of "just use Poetry!" and "just use a container!", but I can see it potentially being useful for a batteries-included devenv in more niche applications like Julia, Elixir, microcontrollers/development boards, etc.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  devbox is a similar idea, but is more approachable for those who don't know nix.
evantbyrne 3y ago
Vagrant was fantastic pre-Docker and is still arguably more useful for certain cases, but I recall having issues running it last I tried. Based on the website, VirtualBox still lacks stable ARM64 support. Would "boxes" downloaded from the Vagrant cloud need to be built for ARM64 as well, or does it emulate?
- dharmab 3y ago
  It does not emulate. My org has been deprecating Vagrant ever since IT started issuing Apple Silicon as an option. Replacement is Docker Compose, or cloud VMs for software with heavy disk I/O.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    Do you know if Packer is still decent for building cloud AMIs? Or do you have any suggestion for building custom images that can run on cloud platforms as well as locally?
    - dharmab 3y ago
      We're mostly using multi-arch container images for that use case.
    - CaveTech 3y ago
      We use packer to build our images for all of Vagrant, Docker and AMIs (multi-arch) and push to the relevant registries. The packer side is probably ~100 lines of HCL, and allows us to have consistent images no matter where it's running. It's a fairly simple tool in premise and does what's on the tin, would recommend.
  - charrondev 3y ago
    Is there such a significant problem with disk IO going to docker for Mac over vagrant? Now there is overhead for mounting local volumes into the container, but I’ve found them to be negligible on my Apple Silicon Mac’s in the last year or 2. (Apple seems to have been the one to fix it with their new virtualization framework which docker for Mac supports). Now back when they first added their APFS file system things were atrociously slow when it came to Disk IO (as in 10x slowdowns or more) and there were various workarounds but it seems resolved to me now.
debosmit 3y ago
https://devzero.io https://devzero.io
quickthrower2 3y ago
Vagrant was the reason for Hashicorp :-)
- numbsafari 3y ago
  Too bad they abandoned it.
  - mdaniel 3y ago
    https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/blob/v2.3.7/CHANGELOG.md#237-june-15-2023 https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/blob/v2.3.7/CHANGELOG.m... ? The changelog lists both improvements and bug fixes and there's even apparently some effort to port it away from ruby: https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/blob/v2.3.7/internal/cli/main.go#L60 https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/blob/v2.3.7/internal/cl...
seanp2k2 3y ago
Kinda sort nix?

by 22c 3y ago

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago

I've been using devenv for new projects. I like it so far. Some might find nix (which it requires) to be overkill, but I think that's underestimating how devilish of a problem it's solving.

22c 3y ago
It seems more approachable than going down the NixOS rabbit hole. I haven't had a need to reach for it yet, but I will probably try it out at some point.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
  I'd be cautious about thinking that you'll be able to use it for complex projects without eventually needing to enter the NixOS rabbit hole. This hasn't happened to me yet on a project that I'm using devnenv with, but while using nix flakes I've found weirdness in nipkgs that I wanted to address. On the other hand, the ability to put non python deps in a place that feels like a venv... feels pretty magical.
  - 22c 3y ago
    Yes for Python it seems to sit between a blurry midpoint of "just use Poetry!" and "just use a container!", but I can see it potentially being useful for a batteries-included devenv in more niche applications like Julia, Elixir, microcontrollers/development boards, etc.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
devbox is a similar idea, but is more approachable for those who don't know nix.

evantbyrne 3y ago

Vagrant was fantastic pre-Docker and is still arguably more useful for certain cases, but I recall having issues running it last I tried. Based on the website, VirtualBox still lacks stable ARM64 support. Would "boxes" downloaded from the Vagrant cloud need to be built for ARM64 as well, or does it emulate?

dharmab 3y ago
It does not emulate. My org has been deprecating Vagrant ever since IT started issuing Apple Silicon as an option. Replacement is Docker Compose, or cloud VMs for software with heavy disk I/O.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  Do you know if Packer is still decent for building cloud AMIs? Or do you have any suggestion for building custom images that can run on cloud platforms as well as locally?
  - dharmab 3y ago
    We're mostly using multi-arch container images for that use case.
  - CaveTech 3y ago
    We use packer to build our images for all of Vagrant, Docker and AMIs (multi-arch) and push to the relevant registries. The packer side is probably ~100 lines of HCL, and allows us to have consistent images no matter where it's running. It's a fairly simple tool in premise and does what's on the tin, would recommend.
- charrondev 3y ago
  Is there such a significant problem with disk IO going to docker for Mac over vagrant? Now there is overhead for mounting local volumes into the container, but I’ve found them to be negligible on my Apple Silicon Mac’s in the last year or 2. (Apple seems to have been the one to fix it with their new virtualization framework which docker for Mac supports). Now back when they first added their APFS file system things were atrociously slow when it came to Disk IO (as in 10x slowdowns or more) and there were various workarounds but it seems resolved to me now.

debosmit 3y ago

https://devzero.io https://devzero.io

quickthrower2 3y ago

Vagrant was the reason for Hashicorp :-)

numbsafari 3y ago
Too bad they abandoned it.
- mdaniel 3y ago
  https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/blob/v2.3.7/CHANGELOG.md#237-june-15-2023 https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/blob/v2.3.7/CHANGELOG.m... ? The changelog lists both improvements and bug fixes and there's even apparently some effort to port it away from ruby: https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/blob/v2.3.7/internal/cli/main.go#L60 https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/blob/v2.3.7/internal/cl...

seanp2k2 3y ago

Kinda sort nix?