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Can you expand on how poverty is a core functional mechanic of capitalism? That is not obvious to me. Capitalism would cease to function without poverty? It se

Can you expand on how poverty is a core functional mechanic of capitalism? That is not obvious to me. Capitalism would cease to function without poverty? It seems to me more like capitalism just does not do anything to prevent poverty, since the system itself is blind to human needs. I do think that inequality is fundamental to capitalism, and that if we added an equality constraint the system would definitely cease to function. But I don’t see how the same applies to poverty.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
If you had inequality without poverty, eg a true basic income or a standard of living "floor" that provided for all basic needs, a grueling low wage job would not be an attractive alternative for a great many people. When you look at capitalism globally it depends on a tremendous number of people who are paid much less than the value their labor produces, straightforwardly because the alternative is misery and plausible death. The real threat of penury provides the coercive force that gets work done at rates that capital owners are able to take as profit. And like yes there is varying tolerance of different forms and degrees of deprivation, and maybe there is some balanced "sweet spot" where you can keep people sad enough, and provide a well paid-enough minimum wage where grim poverty is gone but owners can still accrue profits. But if that's even possible which I'm not convinced about, we are deep in a local maximum and not climbing out of it. The accumulation of capital provides its own feedback loop for optimizing the value extracted from peoples' labor. The existence of poverty is a highly efficient pressure mechanism in that cycle. There's no incentive from the top to remove it and make the machine less effective at its purpose, generating profit.
- scarecrowbob 3y ago
  So many times I've read a thoughtful comment on these topics, and when I look up it is by giraffe_lady. Like, literally dozens. Probably just an odd conjunction of interests and views. Anyhow. Keep up the thoughtful writing, and thanks.

giraffe_lady 3y ago

If you had inequality without poverty, eg a true basic income or a standard of living "floor" that provided for all basic needs, a grueling low wage job would not be an attractive alternative for a great many people. When you look at capitalism globally it depends on a tremendous number of people who are paid much less than the value their labor produces, straightforwardly because the alternative is misery and plausible death. The real threat of penury provides the coercive force that gets work done at rates that capital owners are able to take as profit. And like yes there is varying tolerance of different forms and degrees of deprivation, and maybe there is some balanced "sweet spot" where you can keep people sad enough, and provide a well paid-enough minimum wage where grim poverty is gone but owners can still accrue profits. But if that's even possible which I'm not convinced about, we are deep in a local maximum and not climbing out of it. The accumulation of capital provides its own feedback loop for optimizing the value extracted from peoples' labor. The existence of poverty is a highly efficient pressure mechanism in that cycle. There's no incentive from the top to remove it and make the machine less effective at its purpose, generating profit.

scarecrowbob 3y ago
So many times I've read a thoughtful comment on these topics, and when I look up it is by giraffe_lady. Like, literally dozens. Probably just an odd conjunction of interests and views. Anyhow. Keep up the thoughtful writing, and thanks.