3 ms·

The dose makes the poison. Currently chemical analysis techniques can detect compounds down to picograms/L. That's billionth's of grams per liter. So saying

• nimos 3y ago
  A lot of chemicals seem to have effects on the endocrine system. I wonder if there is potentially an issue with them in aggregate. Such that the dose of any single chemical isn't problematic but all of them together with similar effects causes a problem.
  • mistrial9 3y ago
    you are right -- keyword search "body burden" or "forever chemicals"
  • milsorgen 3y ago
    >I wonder if there is potentially an issue with them in aggregate. Such that the dose of any single chemical isn't problematic but all of them together with similar effects causes a problem. I've been wondering about this a lot in recent years. Particularly in regards to medications/pharmaceuticals but also environmental containments/traces (which can include pharmaceuticals of course), pair with this what we are just starting to understand about plastics exposure and pervasiveness and I really wonder why more health research and workplace safety resources aren't being directed to look at compound and long term exposures.
    • brewdad 3y ago
      > I really wonder why more health research and workplace safety resources aren't being directed to look at compound and long term exposures. Probably because no one wants to find the various smoking guns alongside the fears of what each of the ensuing lawsuits would cost. Ignorance is bliss as they say.
    • thatguy0900 3y ago
      What would even happen if we found out plastics are unsafe in small amounts? You'd about have to remake half the world at this point.
  • refurb 3y ago
    That would require some interaction between the chemicals, that potentiates their effect. Or they act through common pathways. But if the threshold effect is 1 microgram, and you're exposed to 1 picogram of 10 different chemicals all working through the same pathway, you're still below the threshold effect.
    • nwienert 3y ago
      I think the idea was more if the threshold effect is 1 microgram and you're exposed to 100 picograms of 10 different chemicals.
• hammock 3y ago
  The study in question literally says a small dose is about as effective as a massive dose.
  • refurb 3y ago
    That's because it's a terribly designed study. Their lowest dose shows maximum effect, they should have also tested 0.1 mg/kg. And 1mg/kg of body weight is way more than any person would be exposed to unless you like drinking gasoline.
    • InSteady 3y ago
      If you read carefully through the study, the lowest dose does not show anything close to maximum effect in several of the most interesting metrics they were testing (shrinking of white adipose tissue cells, serum levels of leptin indicating endocrine dysfunction). Basically they tested a ton of stuff, and actually selected a pretty good range to get a decent picture. If they wanted to zoom on on one of these, then maybe you are right they should have started at 0.1mg/kg... unless they were zooming on on say decrease in serum levels of leptins in response to benzene exposure, because no significant decrease would be found. Also, they are obviously interested in lifetime exposure, but the expense of exposing rats to tiny amounts over the course of years is not financially/logistically feasible, unless someone is dumping obscene amounts of money into this specific avenue of research. Instead, they go with much higher doses in 24 exposures over a 4 week period.
      • XorNot 3y ago
        Yes but "the dose makes the poison". Unless you're showing direct cumulative, irreparable damage, then it is not possible to extrapolate by poisoning something with a large amount of chemical that the small amount is just as bad. Pure water - i.e. Milli-Q ultrapure water - is in fact a toxin in moderate quantities due to osmotic effects.
• jacobwilliamroy 3y ago
  Just for clarification (because I had to look it up) a picogram is 10^-12 grams.