3 ms·

Why? The alternative to censoring the topic is to let all the facts emerge. berntb can mention Hamas bombing civilians and Jewish expulsions, and I can mention

by ucee054 15y ago

Why? The alternative to censoring the topic is to let all the facts emerge. berntb can mention Hamas bombing civilians and Jewish expulsions, and I can mention the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and Israeli actions against the Occupy movement. I don't need to negate his points or convince him of anything. Once all the facts are on the table we can then trust the Hacker News readership to be intelligent enough to decide for themselves.

DanBC 15y ago
...the fact that you misuse the term "ethnic cleansing" is annoying enough for me to respond, but this is my last reply to this thread. County X has two populations, the zarbs and the tiwks. The zarbs kill all the tiwks. The zarbs have been ethnically cleansed. You may think this is a trivial point. But you're talking to an international audience, and you're talking about a subject where language is analysed in minute detail for perceived insult or support or whatnot.
- ucee054 15y ago
  No, that's genocide. Genocide = Killing Ethnic cleansing = Expulsion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
DanBC 15y ago
Please stop.
berntb 15y ago
>>The alternative to censoring the topic is to let all the facts emerge. That would be a normal discussion. This isn't. When I noted the official acceptance and idolising of terror, even murdering sleeping children with a knife, you "countered" by judging a very heterogeneous country by a T-shirt... Just to not let the Israeli side be less than evil -- or better than "your" side in anything. I commented on the insanity of the "argument" three times -- you just wrote that your T-shirt claim proved something! 1) Can you give an example of worse argumentation, ever? 2) Do you really think anyone wants to read that kind of garbage? Edit: So it is clear. My point is that the facts won't emerge when the people debating lie and use obfuscation (i.e. lots of text) when they are plain wrong.
- ucee054 15y ago
  The facts emerged. You called my posts "lies", "hate", "garbage" and "antisemitism" and made claims backed with no references. I provided references to Israeli and Jewish sources that any reader can check. Here are some more: http://www.icahd.org/ http://www.icahd.org/ http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/auschwitz-survivor-israel-acts-like-nazis-1.1000918 http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/auschwitz-surviv... http://www.zochrot.org/en http://www.zochrot.org/en http://mondoweiss.net/ http://mondoweiss.net/
  - berntb 15y ago
    In the GP, I wrote about your claims about a whole country, based on some T-shirts. That showed you to be a totally non-serious debater, ucee054. You can't answer that (for the fourth time), so you link to an 86 year old individual and some activist organisations?! Sad. You can't even admit failure, afterwards. You know the other side is evil. What now? You'll lie? Here is a link to my first comment. You could maybe delete the parent? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3637264 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3637264 Also, your claim that it is possible to debate this subjects with fanatics is proven wrong. QED. Edit: Since you don't seem to know it, you can find groups having most any opinion in a democracy. So activist web sites is not exactly the best support.
    - ucee054 15y ago
      You said "the glorifying of bombing/shooting children at close range. (No, it is not the Israeli side that do that.)" Thereby condemning the whole Palestinian "side" on the basis of unspecified "people". I pointed out that the Israeli side do do that too. You then claimed it was only "some" Israelis. I pointed out that in fact it was the people pulling the trigger. And I provided references. And I never claimed that every Israeli glorified that; in fact I have referenced Israelis who do not. So in fact I have nothing to answer you for. However, you have to answer for smearing the entire Palestinian side without providing a single reference. Apart from unsubstantiated assertions, the information content of your posts has been nil. I will charitably presume that you meant to condemn Hamas. In that case, let the facts against Hamas stand. And let the facts stand about the Israeli destruction of Palestinian infrastructure - which was the original topic. Readers are smart enough to make up their own minds. I don't need to "debate" you point by point, especially since you go off topic and into ad-hominems. And Hacker News doesn't need your permission to cover topics you are uncomfortable about.

by ucee054 15y ago

DanBC 15y ago

...the fact that you misuse the term "ethnic cleansing" is annoying enough for me to respond, but this is my last reply to this thread. County X has two populations, the zarbs and the tiwks. The zarbs kill all the tiwks. The zarbs have been ethnically cleansed. You may think this is a trivial point. But you're talking to an international audience, and you're talking about a subject where language is analysed in minute detail for perceived insult or support or whatnot.

ucee054 15y ago
No, that's genocide. Genocide = Killing Ethnic cleansing = Expulsion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

DanBC 15y ago

Please stop.

berntb 15y ago

>>The alternative to censoring the topic is to let all the facts emerge. That would be a normal discussion. This isn't. When I noted the official acceptance and idolising of terror, even murdering sleeping children with a knife, you "countered" by judging a very heterogeneous country by a T-shirt... Just to not let the Israeli side be less than evil -- or better than "your" side in anything. I commented on the insanity of the "argument" three times -- you just wrote that your T-shirt claim proved something! 1) Can you give an example of worse argumentation, ever? 2) Do you really think anyone wants to read that kind of garbage? Edit: So it is clear. My point is that the facts won't emerge when the people debating lie and use obfuscation (i.e. lots of text) when they are plain wrong.

ucee054 15y ago
The facts emerged. You called my posts "lies", "hate", "garbage" and "antisemitism" and made claims backed with no references. I provided references to Israeli and Jewish sources that any reader can check. Here are some more: http://www.icahd.org/ http://www.icahd.org/ http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/auschwitz-survivor-israel-acts-like-nazis-1.1000918 http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/auschwitz-surviv... http://www.zochrot.org/en http://www.zochrot.org/en http://mondoweiss.net/ http://mondoweiss.net/
- berntb 15y ago
  In the GP, I wrote about your claims about a whole country, based on some T-shirts. That showed you to be a totally non-serious debater, ucee054. You can't answer that (for the fourth time), so you link to an 86 year old individual and some activist organisations?! Sad. You can't even admit failure, afterwards. You know the other side is evil. What now? You'll lie? Here is a link to my first comment. You could maybe delete the parent? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3637264 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3637264 Also, your claim that it is possible to debate this subjects with fanatics is proven wrong. QED. Edit: Since you don't seem to know it, you can find groups having most any opinion in a democracy. So activist web sites is not exactly the best support.
  - ucee054 15y ago
    You said "the glorifying of bombing/shooting children at close range. (No, it is not the Israeli side that do that.)" Thereby condemning the whole Palestinian "side" on the basis of unspecified "people". I pointed out that the Israeli side do do that too. You then claimed it was only "some" Israelis. I pointed out that in fact it was the people pulling the trigger. And I provided references. And I never claimed that every Israeli glorified that; in fact I have referenced Israelis who do not. So in fact I have nothing to answer you for. However, you have to answer for smearing the entire Palestinian side without providing a single reference. Apart from unsubstantiated assertions, the information content of your posts has been nil. I will charitably presume that you meant to condemn Hamas. In that case, let the facts against Hamas stand. And let the facts stand about the Israeli destruction of Palestinian infrastructure - which was the original topic. Readers are smart enough to make up their own minds. I don't need to "debate" you point by point, especially since you go off topic and into ad-hominems. And Hacker News doesn't need your permission to cover topics you are uncomfortable about.