3 ms·

Yeah, I am a long time Google hater but I still think there are a host of other rent seekers. These Newspapers are getting free distribution and can easily use

by wand3r 3y ago

Yeah, I am a long time Google hater but I still think there are a host of other rent seekers. These Newspapers are getting free distribution and can easily use robots.txt if they want to stop Google. Similarly, I can't help but feel like Europe just does some cash grab once a month and hits Google with some fine about data. I think Google is a scumbag company, but on principle it seems like Europe and Newspapers just try and milk this cash cow they are TOTALLY dependent on rather than truly do anything to erode Googles power.

supermatt 3y ago
What is the deal with the anti-EU sentiment? Is there something specific you disagree with, or do you simply think laws shouldnt apply to megacorps? The fines google pays for its continued abuse of user data and anti-competitive business practices are a pittance compared to the EUs annual budget (>180bn EUR this year). Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. They could always just stop doing the shit (or just pull out of the EU).
- photonthug 3y ago
  Not the parent, but I do understand the sentiment and I don't think it's "anti-EU" at all, and parent was clear that they don't like megacorp. Consider the following two step process: a) Megacorp monetizes people through exploitation, and b) Nation-states monetize megacorp by levying pointless fines that effect no real change to actually help people This might not be a very nuanced take about how things work, but is it really a terrible summary? Whether it's casually evil data-mongering, or industrial accidents like oil spills / train derailments, or more directly evil practices like price gouging for drugs that keep people alive.. we see this stuff play out all the time. Government-levied fines for such things don't seem to be working as a disincentive for megacorp, so how many times can you watch it before going full-cynic and just labeling it as a form of rent-seeking? I'd like to be an optimist that sees a well intentioned government intervening on behalf of the people, but I'm personally running out of patience and faith. I think a lot of people are the same. I'd certainly stop short of saying the EU is completely corrupted, like they are just redirecting the fine-payouts into their politicians pockets or something. And FWIW, as an American I certainly do appreciate the EU's very civilized push for data-regulation/right-to-repair/etc. But I think we have to admit fines aren't successful at reforming megacorp, or more specifically I don't think GDPR is fixing the internet. Why are things steadily getting worse despite more regulation? Again, not a nuanced take, but when people are looking for an explanation, at some point it's natural to think this looks like rent-seeking, because it's either that or sheer incompetence.
  - supermatt 3y ago
    > I think we have to admit fines aren't successful at reforming megacorp I kind of agree with this. It seems like they just see it as the cost of business, which is why they never actually change. That said, the fines seem to be increasing almost exponentially, so I guess we will see what happens when they refuse to pay them.
- wand3r 3y ago
  The EU braintrust brought us stupid cookie banners and now Italy and presumably other countries are trying to ban AI. So specifically, I think a stronger message is sent by moving away from google then rent seeking fines on the per country basis. It lets you virtue signal that you care while presumably a) let Google do whatever it wants if it fills your coffers b) presumably benefit from their data in your intelligence schemes. > 180bn EUR Yeah a single fine was 4b so thats 2% of their budget annually and of course in aggregate a lot of money. So it sounds to me like they want their cake and eat it too. Sounds like Europe wants to benefit from data collection, wants to collect rent, wants to look proactive BUT doesn't want to do anything that causes real change. Im an American so I am not saying that our government is doing things right, far from it as we're basically living in a corporatacracy. It just seems like Europe doesn't have the culture or business incentives to succeed at tech so they try to extract a pound of flesh. Similarly, they don't have the courage to really protect their citizens. Same bullshit as US watered down bullshit, payoffs and laws more holey than swiss cheese. Edit: more cynical take is that they don't like Google'd power as it threatens them and they use their influence to cash grab and also try and control Google. Really doubt its particularly benevolent.
  - supermatt 3y ago
    > The EU braintrust brought us stupid cookie banners The EU didnt bring cookie banners. They corps that want to track you did that. > Italy and presumably other countries are trying to ban AI FUD > a single fine was 4b so thats 2% of their budget annually and of course in aggregate a lot of money. That was the largest fine, its hardly typical. In order to stop paying fines they just need to stop doing their evil shit in the EU - let them keep their evil domestic then its not an issue. > It just seems like Europe doesn't have the culture or business incentives to succeed at tech so they try to extract a pound of flesh. We have many of our own successful tech companies. They arent as large as your megacorps because they dont need to be. Note that we also fine our own companies when they abuse peoples privacy.

by wand3r 3y ago

supermatt 3y ago

What is the deal with the anti-EU sentiment? Is there something specific you disagree with, or do you simply think laws shouldnt apply to megacorps? The fines google pays for its continued abuse of user data and anti-competitive business practices are a pittance compared to the EUs annual budget (>180bn EUR this year). Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. They could always just stop doing the shit (or just pull out of the EU).

photonthug 3y ago
Not the parent, but I do understand the sentiment and I don't think it's "anti-EU" at all, and parent was clear that they don't like megacorp. Consider the following two step process: a) Megacorp monetizes people through exploitation, and b) Nation-states monetize megacorp by levying pointless fines that effect no real change to actually help people This might not be a very nuanced take about how things work, but is it really a terrible summary? Whether it's casually evil data-mongering, or industrial accidents like oil spills / train derailments, or more directly evil practices like price gouging for drugs that keep people alive.. we see this stuff play out all the time. Government-levied fines for such things don't seem to be working as a disincentive for megacorp, so how many times can you watch it before going full-cynic and just labeling it as a form of rent-seeking? I'd like to be an optimist that sees a well intentioned government intervening on behalf of the people, but I'm personally running out of patience and faith. I think a lot of people are the same. I'd certainly stop short of saying the EU is completely corrupted, like they are just redirecting the fine-payouts into their politicians pockets or something. And FWIW, as an American I certainly do appreciate the EU's very civilized push for data-regulation/right-to-repair/etc. But I think we have to admit fines aren't successful at reforming megacorp, or more specifically I don't think GDPR is fixing the internet. Why are things steadily getting worse despite more regulation? Again, not a nuanced take, but when people are looking for an explanation, at some point it's natural to think this looks like rent-seeking, because it's either that or sheer incompetence.
- supermatt 3y ago
  > I think we have to admit fines aren't successful at reforming megacorp I kind of agree with this. It seems like they just see it as the cost of business, which is why they never actually change. That said, the fines seem to be increasing almost exponentially, so I guess we will see what happens when they refuse to pay them.
wand3r 3y ago
The EU braintrust brought us stupid cookie banners and now Italy and presumably other countries are trying to ban AI. So specifically, I think a stronger message is sent by moving away from google then rent seeking fines on the per country basis. It lets you virtue signal that you care while presumably a) let Google do whatever it wants if it fills your coffers b) presumably benefit from their data in your intelligence schemes. > 180bn EUR Yeah a single fine was 4b so thats 2% of their budget annually and of course in aggregate a lot of money. So it sounds to me like they want their cake and eat it too. Sounds like Europe wants to benefit from data collection, wants to collect rent, wants to look proactive BUT doesn't want to do anything that causes real change. Im an American so I am not saying that our government is doing things right, far from it as we're basically living in a corporatacracy. It just seems like Europe doesn't have the culture or business incentives to succeed at tech so they try to extract a pound of flesh. Similarly, they don't have the courage to really protect their citizens. Same bullshit as US watered down bullshit, payoffs and laws more holey than swiss cheese. Edit: more cynical take is that they don't like Google'd power as it threatens them and they use their influence to cash grab and also try and control Google. Really doubt its particularly benevolent.
- supermatt 3y ago
  > The EU braintrust brought us stupid cookie banners The EU didnt bring cookie banners. They corps that want to track you did that. > Italy and presumably other countries are trying to ban AI FUD > a single fine was 4b so thats 2% of their budget annually and of course in aggregate a lot of money. That was the largest fine, its hardly typical. In order to stop paying fines they just need to stop doing their evil shit in the EU - let them keep their evil domestic then its not an issue. > It just seems like Europe doesn't have the culture or business incentives to succeed at tech so they try to extract a pound of flesh. We have many of our own successful tech companies. They arent as large as your megacorps because they dont need to be. Note that we also fine our own companies when they abuse peoples privacy.