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I understand that you folks are upset that the market has shifted and advertisers and investors are no longer able to prop up companies running at a loss anymor

by avree 3y ago

I understand that you folks are upset that the market has shifted and advertisers and investors are no longer able to prop up companies running at a loss anymore. Twitter is charging for their API, Reddit is charging for their API, and people don't like change. I'm not sure where I've had "sarcasm or the presumption of stupidity" but that was certainly a strange section to add to your comment.

ryantgtg 3y ago
What a take. Advertisers are no longer "willing", not "able", to prop up Twitter at the moment. Most people believe that charging for the APIs is reasonable. You might be missing the primary arguments going on about egregious costs and unreasonable (and often unexplained) timelines.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  2.5$ a month for the average user of third party apps isn't really egregious. Especially since you can also use your own API key and have something close to 100rq/sec for free.
  - ryukafalz 3y ago
    Except Reddit has said that app developers aren't allowed to let users set their own API keys: https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v84/if_you_want_to_use_your_own_api_key/jokqfe4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v8... Obviously for FOSS apps they can't stop someone from recompiling the app with their own API key baked in, but the barrier to entry there is significantly higher.
    - shultays 3y ago
      Why reddit is against users using their own api keys?
      - snowe2010 3y ago
        because they don't want the apps to stick around. that's why they're not negotiating, that's why they made the pricing so high (also to take advantage of AI scrapers), that's why they're making a bogeyman out of tpa devs.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Because this was never about getting a cut in 3rd party app revenue. They want to be the only app in town, one single experience that all ads can flow into. Now it begs the question: why not force 3p apps to show ads to non-premium users? I imagine control is the answer there. Easier to show to adverts how good one app is doing then verifying proper ad placement in every 3p app.
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      Ahhh! Unsurprisingly, It seems like there is already a revanced patch for the Reddit sync app that allows you to use your own API key. So I guess users will just start doing it anyways, but still I wasn't aware of that restriction
  - kec 3y ago
    The reddit API terms are written to imply not allowing users to bring their own key. Given how antagonistic reddit has been to 3rd party apps during this one can assume they would make this explicit if anyone tried.
    - snowe2010 3y ago
      they already did make it explicit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v84/if_you_want_to_use_your_own_api_key/jokqfe4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v8...
  - denlekke 3y ago
    it's 60rq/minute for free not per second https://github.com/reddit-archive/reddit/wiki/API https://github.com/reddit-archive/reddit/wiki/API
- avree 3y ago
  I moderate several subreddits and have written my own apps/bots that perform various functions, such as updating CSS flair based on a remote set of changing assets, monitoring posts, etc. I am quite okay with the planned API costs, timeline, and communication. How were you affected by the changes? I read the Apollo guy's posts, but the reality is that he had built a very, very profitable business serving Reddit's content to the masses.
  - philote 3y ago
    So as a moderator, you're ok with having to pay to better do your unpaid moderation duties? Edit: Also, I'm curious how much you'd be paying.
    - secondcoming 3y ago
      How is it different to people contributing to Open Source software in their free time?
      - revscat 3y ago
        It’s not, and in OS communities when there is a disagreement, or people do not like the decisions made by core contributors, then people make their displeasure known. And if these problems aren’t addressed to their satisfaction then they take that as an opportunity to leave.
      - eageroryx 3y ago
        Open source is generally not a private company with shareholders.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Reddit hasn't been open source for a decade. So, the "open source" part? If someone really likes my project but really hates me (or vice versa) you can fork my project and keep going. Take all the progress I contributed to and make your own ball. Reddit, not so much. Maybe you can clone the high level design, but the people wont follow. It's not like OS where contributers are well, contributing. Most of the audience is passive browsers.
x86x87 3y ago
This comment is a perfect example. People are not upset that the market has changed and advertisers/investors are not somehow proping up the unwashed masses. People are upset because reddit (with the jerk in charge) are screwing them over. And they are not only screwing them over they are lying through their teeth. On a platform that has 0 value without the work of the users generating the content. Twitter? Twitter is a dumpster fire. Reddit will join it soon.
- avree 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - x86x87 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - adamrezich 3y ago
    the thing you're missing here is that some people have strong emotional attachments to their subreddit communities, to the point of considering it to be part of their identity. I was like this, once, many years ago, and while I can't quite understand why anyone would've stayed on an obviously-sinking ship this long, I can see where they're coming from. the thing that should've clued you into this is how emotionally-charged and defensive the language used by these people is (let alone the desire to stage a virtual "protest"…)—once you see this pattern, it's easy to identify going forward.
revscat 3y ago
It's pretty apparent you do not, in fact, understand, since nothing you have said resembles reality, but rather lazy strawmen. It is almost universally understood that no business can operate at a loss, inducing by those who are moving away from Reddit. That you cannot understand this is the "presumption of idiocy" that was mentioned.

by avree 3y ago

ryantgtg 3y ago

What a take. Advertisers are no longer "willing", not "able", to prop up Twitter at the moment. Most people believe that charging for the APIs is reasonable. You might be missing the primary arguments going on about egregious costs and unreasonable (and often unexplained) timelines.

mardifoufs 3y ago
2.5$ a month for the average user of third party apps isn't really egregious. Especially since you can also use your own API key and have something close to 100rq/sec for free.
- ryukafalz 3y ago
  Except Reddit has said that app developers aren't allowed to let users set their own API keys: https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v84/if_you_want_to_use_your_own_api_key/jokqfe4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v8... Obviously for FOSS apps they can't stop someone from recompiling the app with their own API key baked in, but the barrier to entry there is significantly higher.
  - shultays 3y ago
    Why reddit is against users using their own api keys?
    - snowe2010 3y ago
      because they don't want the apps to stick around. that's why they're not negotiating, that's why they made the pricing so high (also to take advantage of AI scrapers), that's why they're making a bogeyman out of tpa devs.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      Because this was never about getting a cut in 3rd party app revenue. They want to be the only app in town, one single experience that all ads can flow into. Now it begs the question: why not force 3p apps to show ads to non-premium users? I imagine control is the answer there. Easier to show to adverts how good one app is doing then verifying proper ad placement in every 3p app.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Ahhh! Unsurprisingly, It seems like there is already a revanced patch for the Reddit sync app that allows you to use your own API key. So I guess users will just start doing it anyways, but still I wasn't aware of that restriction
- kec 3y ago
  The reddit API terms are written to imply not allowing users to bring their own key. Given how antagonistic reddit has been to 3rd party apps during this one can assume they would make this explicit if anyone tried.
  - snowe2010 3y ago
    they already did make it explicit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v84/if_you_want_to_use_your_own_api_key/jokqfe4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v8...
- denlekke 3y ago
  it's 60rq/minute for free not per second https://github.com/reddit-archive/reddit/wiki/API https://github.com/reddit-archive/reddit/wiki/API
avree 3y ago
I moderate several subreddits and have written my own apps/bots that perform various functions, such as updating CSS flair based on a remote set of changing assets, monitoring posts, etc. I am quite okay with the planned API costs, timeline, and communication. How were you affected by the changes? I read the Apollo guy's posts, but the reality is that he had built a very, very profitable business serving Reddit's content to the masses.
- philote 3y ago
  So as a moderator, you're ok with having to pay to better do your unpaid moderation duties? Edit: Also, I'm curious how much you'd be paying.
  - secondcoming 3y ago
    How is it different to people contributing to Open Source software in their free time?
    - revscat 3y ago
      It’s not, and in OS communities when there is a disagreement, or people do not like the decisions made by core contributors, then people make their displeasure known. And if these problems aren’t addressed to their satisfaction then they take that as an opportunity to leave.
    - eageroryx 3y ago
      Open source is generally not a private company with shareholders.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      Reddit hasn't been open source for a decade. So, the "open source" part? If someone really likes my project but really hates me (or vice versa) you can fork my project and keep going. Take all the progress I contributed to and make your own ball. Reddit, not so much. Maybe you can clone the high level design, but the people wont follow. It's not like OS where contributers are well, contributing. Most of the audience is passive browsers.

x86x87 3y ago

This comment is a perfect example. People are not upset that the market has changed and advertisers/investors are not somehow proping up the unwashed masses. People are upset because reddit (with the jerk in charge) are screwing them over. And they are not only screwing them over they are lying through their teeth. On a platform that has 0 value without the work of the users generating the content. Twitter? Twitter is a dumpster fire. Reddit will join it soon.

avree 3y ago
[flagged]
- x86x87 3y ago
  [flagged]
- adamrezich 3y ago
  the thing you're missing here is that some people have strong emotional attachments to their subreddit communities, to the point of considering it to be part of their identity. I was like this, once, many years ago, and while I can't quite understand why anyone would've stayed on an obviously-sinking ship this long, I can see where they're coming from. the thing that should've clued you into this is how emotionally-charged and defensive the language used by these people is (let alone the desire to stage a virtual "protest"…)—once you see this pattern, it's easy to identify going forward.

revscat 3y ago

It's pretty apparent you do not, in fact, understand, since nothing you have said resembles reality, but rather lazy strawmen. It is almost universally understood that no business can operate at a loss, inducing by those who are moving away from Reddit. That you cannot understand this is the "presumption of idiocy" that was mentioned.