5 ms·

Something I noticed at my current workplace (20 employees, 80% women and mostly between 20-30 yrs old) is that all the girls constantly take breaks or walks tog

by stef25 3y ago

Something I noticed at my current workplace (20 employees, 80% women and mostly between 20-30 yrs old) is that all the girls constantly take breaks or walks together to just to be with each other and get things off their chests. They frequently give each other hugs at random times during the day. New employees arrive and they immediately fall in to the fold. One arrived from abroad and after a few weeks said "you guys (she meant gals) are my new family here" Meanwhile there's us 3 developer dudes who all get along fine but our relationship goes about as far as "all good?", "yep you?". And then of course talking about IT geek stuff. Kind of general problem with men I think. Very difficult to open up to other men.

damascus 3y ago
Men (generally speaking) want to fit into the social dynamic of their tribe. If you started to slowly open up and talk about more vulnerable topics it's very likely they would follow suit. I've seen it many times, almost always where I was the one that started it. I was once a super 'introverted dev' but really I was just not well socialized and unwilling and unable to express my emotions with confidence and clarity. Once I started to feel my feelings (I started with a feelings journal where I'd write down any emotions I felt that day) then I could start to describe them appropriately for the setting. Opening up to a trusted member of whatever tribe you are in (work, friends, hobby club) at the appropriate pace inspires a great deal of trust. If you talk about how you feel openly (and again, appropriately to where the group is) they come to trust that you will say how you feel when you feel it and that inspires trust and security, which makes you a very valuable member of that tribe.
- stef25 3y ago
  Thanks for the advice :) Paradoxically I'd feel more comfortable telling my life story and recent mishaps to a total stranger than to someone who I spend 8 hrs in an office with. Something to do with if it comes across wrong or people get freaked out, you're still sitting next to them for 40hrs a week until you leave the company.
  - tblt 3y ago
    The good news is, you absolutely can tell a total stranger about your recent mishaps, or worries or problems or whatever! Services like The Samaritans exist just for this and many people find them extremely beneficial.
  - ambicapter 3y ago
    That makes sense as you have more to lose with the people you know than the total strangers. Doesn't stop you from testing the waters though. Additionally, it is useful to find out who you can open up to and who you can't.
bioemerl 3y ago
I honestly don't think it's as big a problem as you would expect. Guys aren't quite so built to be huggy friendly and we tend to be more defined by real working relationships. Or maybe it's just a me thing. Like, at work for me I would be most rewarded by other people who are engaged in that common work cause and interact within that context. Not with stories about family life or opening up about whatever. Hanging out with friends is kind of pointless without a common cause. To do play some game or sport or actually do something that's worth doing and is fairly collaborative. To me a friend is like "hey I'm building a fence, wanna help?". And the ability to be building a fence yourself and asking the same. Or whatever project you can imagine. The "you good" shit is mostly a consequence of lacking that sort of common cause, at least in my experience. Or just watching other people do stuff is good too. "Hold my beer" silly stuff that you can watch and joke and one up each other about. But if someone started that family huggy stuff (barring needing help or talking about their problems) I'd be distancing myself from that hard. In my experience those people are out to get you, smile on a snake.
- siftrics 3y ago
  > Hanging out with friends is kind of pointless without a common cause. I'd've missed out on a lot of good feelings if I had thought this way.
  - temende 3y ago
    Is "good feelings" just a euphemism for sex here?
    - siftrics 3y ago
      Funny :) but no. "Good feelings" as in I feel supremely content and I love my friends and they love me.
- escapedmoose 3y ago
  I used to have this attitude and regret losing good friends over it. It’s too easy to be independent these days, and, if you’re naturally introverted like me, too easy to neglect friendships due to self-reliance. I’m gradually learning to reach out to friends for no other purpose than spending time together, and it’s broadened my horizons. I think modern life is by default too isolating to allow most relationships to build themselves like this. You don’t have to hug people, but reaching out for non-transactional contact is rewarding IME.
keybored 3y ago
About five years ago I got to know a new woman colleague. (I’m a man.) Very soon it felt like she was confiding in me. No one just confides in me like that, so I thougt we were developing a friendship -- I would never think to do something like that to anyone that I didn't trust. It felt great that someone would go out of their way to seek my Platonic companionship. But I eventually realized that I was just the most convenient guy/person (most of her immediate coworkers were men) for her to complain about work while stuck at work. We never did anyhing together otside of work contexts.
downWidOutaFite 3y ago
The one thing I miss from when I was a smoker was the easy, no-expectation, daily excuse to hang out with other dudes at the office. I quit smoking 10 years ago but I still have strong relationships with some of my smoking coworkers from back then, but I haven't developed any work friends at all since then. I find that the main component in building relationships is just how much relaxed time you spend together.
Applejinx 3y ago
I'm not sure that's a problem, so much as it's gender observations. I've seen the same things. There's a meeting I go to, where it can be various blends of men and women. All the people are close and comfortable with each other, but if it happens to be only men, there's silence. If it's a mix, particularly if certain women are present, there's this animated chatter that's easy to join in on. I know for me the heart of what I am isn't about 'opening up', it's about things like that IT geek stuff (but translated into what I do). It feels like an emotional Dunbar number: I do best when there's just a couple people with whom I keep track of how they're doing in a personal way, and it matters a great deal but I won't feel at all the same way about twenty people at once. It seems like women are more likely to keep track of how large numbers of people are doing, in a social way, which won't always mean trying to HELP people: they can get caught up in drama when there's conflict among the people, and it takes on great importance. I'll have a much smaller number of people like that, and will bind more loosely to them, and I think it's the same mechanism but it just doesn't scale the way it does with women. I don't see it as a problem, more as an observation.
throw0101a 3y ago
> And then of course talking about IT geek stuff. Kind of general problem with men I think. Very difficult to open up to other men. I think men generally are about doing things together as opposed to 'just' being together. "Talking" isn't really counted as an activity for men, but is for women. Get a bunch of guys together for paintball, or hunting, or sports, and relationships will form.
whstl 3y ago
I find it weird that other men don't do that. I try to be good friends with men and women I feel I can trust, and we do often talk about personal stuff to let out steam, take breaks for talking, go for walks once in a while, etc. Just yesterday at work I stayed until 9pm because a friend was waiting on some CI shit, I stayed to do today's work in advance. We were close before but we talked about a lot of personal stuff to each other, it's nice advancing the friendship to new levels. But I also talk deep stuff with my male friends. It's not really with everyone but there's plenty of people who are ok with that.
barrysteve 3y ago
uhhh. that's normal. working on cars with friends is one of the best things ever. guys bond over tasks, machines, sports, ect. you can talk about whatever you want with mates, along the 'plotline' of fixing a car. prioritizing 'work families' at work sends the wrong signals. start a union if you want to intertwine your lives to the quality of a 'work family'.

by stef25 3y ago

damascus 3y ago

Men (generally speaking) want to fit into the social dynamic of their tribe. If you started to slowly open up and talk about more vulnerable topics it's very likely they would follow suit. I've seen it many times, almost always where I was the one that started it. I was once a super 'introverted dev' but really I was just not well socialized and unwilling and unable to express my emotions with confidence and clarity. Once I started to feel my feelings (I started with a feelings journal where I'd write down any emotions I felt that day) then I could start to describe them appropriately for the setting. Opening up to a trusted member of whatever tribe you are in (work, friends, hobby club) at the appropriate pace inspires a great deal of trust. If you talk about how you feel openly (and again, appropriately to where the group is) they come to trust that you will say how you feel when you feel it and that inspires trust and security, which makes you a very valuable member of that tribe.

stef25 3y ago
Thanks for the advice :) Paradoxically I'd feel more comfortable telling my life story and recent mishaps to a total stranger than to someone who I spend 8 hrs in an office with. Something to do with if it comes across wrong or people get freaked out, you're still sitting next to them for 40hrs a week until you leave the company.
- tblt 3y ago
  The good news is, you absolutely can tell a total stranger about your recent mishaps, or worries or problems or whatever! Services like The Samaritans exist just for this and many people find them extremely beneficial.
- ambicapter 3y ago
  That makes sense as you have more to lose with the people you know than the total strangers. Doesn't stop you from testing the waters though. Additionally, it is useful to find out who you can open up to and who you can't.

bioemerl 3y ago

I honestly don't think it's as big a problem as you would expect. Guys aren't quite so built to be huggy friendly and we tend to be more defined by real working relationships. Or maybe it's just a me thing. Like, at work for me I would be most rewarded by other people who are engaged in that common work cause and interact within that context. Not with stories about family life or opening up about whatever. Hanging out with friends is kind of pointless without a common cause. To do play some game or sport or actually do something that's worth doing and is fairly collaborative. To me a friend is like "hey I'm building a fence, wanna help?". And the ability to be building a fence yourself and asking the same. Or whatever project you can imagine. The "you good" shit is mostly a consequence of lacking that sort of common cause, at least in my experience. Or just watching other people do stuff is good too. "Hold my beer" silly stuff that you can watch and joke and one up each other about. But if someone started that family huggy stuff (barring needing help or talking about their problems) I'd be distancing myself from that hard. In my experience those people are out to get you, smile on a snake.

siftrics 3y ago
> Hanging out with friends is kind of pointless without a common cause. I'd've missed out on a lot of good feelings if I had thought this way.
- temende 3y ago
  Is "good feelings" just a euphemism for sex here?
  - siftrics 3y ago
    Funny :) but no. "Good feelings" as in I feel supremely content and I love my friends and they love me.
escapedmoose 3y ago
I used to have this attitude and regret losing good friends over it. It’s too easy to be independent these days, and, if you’re naturally introverted like me, too easy to neglect friendships due to self-reliance. I’m gradually learning to reach out to friends for no other purpose than spending time together, and it’s broadened my horizons. I think modern life is by default too isolating to allow most relationships to build themselves like this. You don’t have to hug people, but reaching out for non-transactional contact is rewarding IME.

keybored 3y ago

About five years ago I got to know a new woman colleague. (I’m a man.) Very soon it felt like she was confiding in me. No one just confides in me like that, so I thougt we were developing a friendship -- I would never think to do something like that to anyone that I didn't trust. It felt great that someone would go out of their way to seek my Platonic companionship. But I eventually realized that I was just the most convenient guy/person (most of her immediate coworkers were men) for her to complain about work while stuck at work. We never did anyhing together otside of work contexts.

downWidOutaFite 3y ago

The one thing I miss from when I was a smoker was the easy, no-expectation, daily excuse to hang out with other dudes at the office. I quit smoking 10 years ago but I still have strong relationships with some of my smoking coworkers from back then, but I haven't developed any work friends at all since then. I find that the main component in building relationships is just how much relaxed time you spend together.

Applejinx 3y ago

I'm not sure that's a problem, so much as it's gender observations. I've seen the same things. There's a meeting I go to, where it can be various blends of men and women. All the people are close and comfortable with each other, but if it happens to be only men, there's silence. If it's a mix, particularly if certain women are present, there's this animated chatter that's easy to join in on. I know for me the heart of what I am isn't about 'opening up', it's about things like that IT geek stuff (but translated into what I do). It feels like an emotional Dunbar number: I do best when there's just a couple people with whom I keep track of how they're doing in a personal way, and it matters a great deal but I won't feel at all the same way about twenty people at once. It seems like women are more likely to keep track of how large numbers of people are doing, in a social way, which won't always mean trying to HELP people: they can get caught up in drama when there's conflict among the people, and it takes on great importance. I'll have a much smaller number of people like that, and will bind more loosely to them, and I think it's the same mechanism but it just doesn't scale the way it does with women. I don't see it as a problem, more as an observation.

throw0101a 3y ago

> And then of course talking about IT geek stuff. Kind of general problem with men I think. Very difficult to open up to other men. I think men generally are about doing things together as opposed to 'just' being together. "Talking" isn't really counted as an activity for men, but is for women. Get a bunch of guys together for paintball, or hunting, or sports, and relationships will form.

whstl 3y ago

I find it weird that other men don't do that. I try to be good friends with men and women I feel I can trust, and we do often talk about personal stuff to let out steam, take breaks for talking, go for walks once in a while, etc. Just yesterday at work I stayed until 9pm because a friend was waiting on some CI shit, I stayed to do today's work in advance. We were close before but we talked about a lot of personal stuff to each other, it's nice advancing the friendship to new levels. But I also talk deep stuff with my male friends. It's not really with everyone but there's plenty of people who are ok with that.

barrysteve 3y ago

uhhh. that's normal. working on cars with friends is one of the best things ever. guys bond over tasks, machines, sports, ect. you can talk about whatever you want with mates, along the 'plotline' of fixing a car. prioritizing 'work families' at work sends the wrong signals. start a union if you want to intertwine your lives to the quality of a 'work family'.