5 ms·

AFAICT NACS (read, the "standard" and not Tesla's original release) speaks the same protocol as CCS, it just combines the AC and DC pins into, yes, a sleeker co

AFAICT NACS (read, the "standard" and not Tesla's original release) speaks the same protocol as CCS, it just combines the AC and DC pins into, yes, a sleeker connector. So no real "benefit", and it actually adds complexity into the car itself. But theoretically one could also make a NACS -> CCS adapter, so it wouldn't end up as a CHAdeMO situation. EDIT: I forgot, the NACS connector is more or less self-aligning if you get it in the right general orientation, whereas CCS is pretty particular.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
NACS and CCS currently use different protocols. Older Tesla's require a retrofit to support CCS1. (https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter). However, I suspect a big part of the reason why this flurry of announcements is happening now is that Tesla is upgrading their superchargers to be able to speak the CCS protocol over NACS.
- mavhc 3y ago
  NACS uses CCS protocols, see Page 11 of https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/HXVNIC_North_American_Charging_Standard_Technical_Specification_TS-0023666_HFTPKZ.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22North-American-Charging-Standard-Technical-Specification-TS-0023666.pdf%22 https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/HXVNIC_North_American_Cha... For DC charging, communication between the EV and EVSE shall be power line communication over the control pilot line as depicted in DIN 70121.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Hmmm, we need a good name for the older Tesla plugs that aren't NACS compliant. When I said "current NACS", that's what I was referring to. I should have been more explicit. Tesla vehicles built before ~2020 do not and can not speak CCS without a retrofit.
    - _ea1k 3y ago
      Arguably, those are !NACS at all. It wasn't called NACS until the specs were delivered, along with the requirement to support CCS signaling.
      - mavhc 3y ago
        Yeah, October 2020 is the time they started adding CCS compatible ECU. Surprised it's not a software update, it's just a new protocol. Is there a voltage difference? Or is the ECU 3rd party? At least with Tesla's exponential sales the number of people it affects will be smaller. 1 million out of 4 million I think
        _ea1k 3y ago
        Yeah, there's a different controller inside the charge port. From what I've seen, it isn't a difficult upgrade and the part is unrestricted. I've been estimating the % of affected cars as ~20% at this point and the % that is capable is steadily increasing. Still an annoyance if you have one of the vehicles without support, but they are no worse off than before. The supercharger network has roughly doubled since then too.
- cyberax 3y ago
  > Older Tesla's require a retrofit to support CCS1. This is needed because CCS1 requires special communication circuitry for the control data. All Teslas can speak CCS protocols. The initial Supercharger support used different protocols. They were simple CAN-based, without any metering or billing. In fact, supercharging support was gated by a flag on the car's side.
_ea1k 3y ago
> EDIT: I forgot, the NACS connector is more or less self-aligning if you get it in the right general orientation, whereas CCS is pretty particular. This last part is so useful that I'm stunned anyone designed a connector without it.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

NACS and CCS currently use different protocols. Older Tesla's require a retrofit to support CCS1. (https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter). However, I suspect a big part of the reason why this flurry of announcements is happening now is that Tesla is upgrading their superchargers to be able to speak the CCS protocol over NACS.

mavhc 3y ago
NACS uses CCS protocols, see Page 11 of https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/HXVNIC_North_American_Charging_Standard_Technical_Specification_TS-0023666_HFTPKZ.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22North-American-Charging-Standard-Technical-Specification-TS-0023666.pdf%22 https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/HXVNIC_North_American_Cha... For DC charging, communication between the EV and EVSE shall be power line communication over the control pilot line as depicted in DIN 70121.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Hmmm, we need a good name for the older Tesla plugs that aren't NACS compliant. When I said "current NACS", that's what I was referring to. I should have been more explicit. Tesla vehicles built before ~2020 do not and can not speak CCS without a retrofit.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    Arguably, those are !NACS at all. It wasn't called NACS until the specs were delivered, along with the requirement to support CCS signaling.
    - mavhc 3y ago
      Yeah, October 2020 is the time they started adding CCS compatible ECU. Surprised it's not a software update, it's just a new protocol. Is there a voltage difference? Or is the ECU 3rd party? At least with Tesla's exponential sales the number of people it affects will be smaller. 1 million out of 4 million I think
      - _ea1k 3y ago
        Yeah, there's a different controller inside the charge port. From what I've seen, it isn't a difficult upgrade and the part is unrestricted. I've been estimating the % of affected cars as ~20% at this point and the % that is capable is steadily increasing. Still an annoyance if you have one of the vehicles without support, but they are no worse off than before. The supercharger network has roughly doubled since then too.
cyberax 3y ago
> Older Tesla's require a retrofit to support CCS1. This is needed because CCS1 requires special communication circuitry for the control data. All Teslas can speak CCS protocols. The initial Supercharger support used different protocols. They were simple CAN-based, without any metering or billing. In fact, supercharging support was gated by a flag on the car's side.

_ea1k 3y ago

> EDIT: I forgot, the NACS connector is more or less self-aligning if you get it in the right general orientation, whereas CCS is pretty particular. This last part is so useful that I'm stunned anyone designed a connector without it.