5 ms·

It's kind of in the name, which is why they probably thought they don't need to say it. It's a Chromebox, meaning, a computer running ChromeOS. Usually those c

by sofixa 3y ago

It's kind of in the name, which is why they probably thought they don't need to say it. It's a Chromebox, meaning, a computer running ChromeOS. Usually those can run Linux with some tweaks.

jeffbee 3y ago
Every Chromebox runs Linux.
- mobilio 3y ago
  And Android too...
- bdcravens 3y ago
  It's semantics, but I think it's useful to reserve the name "Linux" for devices that are the unrestricted version of the OS, otherwise the name starts to become as generic as the term "smart".
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    Describe a way in which the Linux implementation of ChromeOS is “restricted”.
    - cbm-vic-20 3y ago
      Are we talking "Linux, the kernel", or "Linux, the typical user experience"?
      - jeffbee 3y ago
        I reject the idea that a terrible UX is an integral part of Linux.
    - bmicraft 3y ago
      Kernel changes that are not in the upstream kernel yet for one
    - bdcravens 3y ago
      Inability to change DE, upgrade kernel, use kernel modules, etc.
    - jchw 3y ago
      Well, for starters, with dm-verity and secure boot to prevent modifications to the root filesystem. IMO it's beside the point. Calling ChromeOS "Linux" is like calling cells "mitochondria". One could argue that the same could be said about the somewhat standard Linux desktop stack you'd find on Ubuntu or Fedora installs, and that's true. However, that's probably mostly just a consequence of the fact that Linux doesn't have an actual standard userspace. The closest it has is the defacto set of components you're likely to find in any GNU/Linux distro, and they are quite different than what you'll find when you boot up ChromeOS or Android.
    - cthulberg 3y ago
      Disclaimer: I daily utilize a cheap Chromebook as a lightweight typewriter, and I love it. However, it's important to note that Linux on this device is subject to certain restrictions: It operates within a containerized environment, which limits both disk space allocation and system-wide access. Accessing the terminal requires navigating through a "virtual machine", and files are shared within the /mnt/chromeos directory. Additionally, the utilization of USB devices is layered behind the primary operating system support and Linux backups are separate from the overall operating system backups.
      - dreamcompiler 3y ago
        Yes. You're describing Crostini which I use often and like. Those constraints are fine with me. YMMV. If you want uncontainerized Linux you have to dual-boot. I used to do that but it's difficult and no longer worth the hassle IMO.
      - jchw 3y ago
        Something interesting about Crostini is that it uses 9p to bridge filesystems, just like WSL2. It seems that 9p has "cracked the code" on bridging filesystems over virtual machines and differing operating systems in a way that other options never seemed to do quite as seamlessly, which I find rather interesting. Maybe it's because it comes with less baggage than CIFS? Easier to extend? Less complex than NFSv4? I'd love some commentary on this.
        jeffbee 3y ago
        The filesystem bridging between Crostini, the rest of ChromeOS, and Google Drive is brilliant. It also transparently integrates SSHFS into the filesystem and the file browser.
    - arcanemachiner 3y ago
      Is spyware.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    You may be talking about 2 different things: 1. Yes, ChromeOS is based on Linux, but it's not really what most people would refer to as "Linux". I think this is what you're talking about. 2. ChromeOS does have, however, some great technology to run an unrestricted version of Linux in a container, called Crostini: https://chromeos.dev/en/linux https://chromeos.dev/en/linux . I used to use a high end Pixel book (which was a great machine, really sad Google discontinued it - surprise, surprise, I know) as a primary dev laptop, it ran VSCode, postgres, etc. very well.
    - bdcravens 3y ago
      Yes, it is based on Linux, as are many televisions, car radios, phones, and other devices. That's my point re "smart" devices. Crostini is a VM, and isn't 100% unrestricted. I'd classify it in the same category as WSL or Parallels.
  - isr 3y ago
    You can switch any chromebook into "developer mode". Then you get bash within the terminal app, with full sudo access. At that point, as you poke around, you find that chrome os is actually built on top of gentoo Linux. And there is a 3rd party pkg manager (chromebrew) which gives you gcc, and thus a whole host of additional pkgs. Yup, its linux all right. Even without going the crouton (chrome into another distro) or crossing (vm running separate linux distro) route.
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  The Linux kernel has always been present in ChromeOS internally. But until about 2021, it was a PITA to convert Chrome machines to "real" Linux; you had to establish a dual-boot environment which was finicky and the process was different on every machine. But now Google has improved the process so you can basically just flip a switch and use the underlying Linux [0] [1]. It's kind of like WSL, but to me it feels like 100% Linux. [0] https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/install-linux-on-your-chromebook https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/install-linux-on-your-chromeboo... [1] On Intel Chromebooks. For ARM Chromebooks, you still need to dual-boot to get something that feels like "real" Linux. [2] [2] Which is kind of ironic given that ChromeOS can run Android apps now, and Android apps are ARM based [3], so they have to be run in emulation mode on Intel CPUs. [3] Okay they're bytecode based. Android apps on Intel Chromebooks used to run the JVM in emulation mode (I think) but there may now be a native Intel version of Dalvik or whatever-Google-calls-their-JVM-these-days.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    The 'flip a switch' is a bit of a shortcut, it usually isn't just a switch but can be a screw that acts as a jumper and you'll need to open the device to access it. Well worth it though, especially if you max them out on RAM after installing Linux and you can get them for little money as 'bricked' for instance out of contract dedicated Google Meet hardware.

by sofixa 3y ago

It's kind of in the name, which is why they probably thought they don't need to say it. It's a Chromebox, meaning, a computer running ChromeOS. Usually those can run Linux with some tweaks.

jeffbee 3y ago

Every Chromebox runs Linux.

mobilio 3y ago
And Android too...
bdcravens 3y ago
It's semantics, but I think it's useful to reserve the name "Linux" for devices that are the unrestricted version of the OS, otherwise the name starts to become as generic as the term "smart".
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Describe a way in which the Linux implementation of ChromeOS is “restricted”.
  - cbm-vic-20 3y ago
    Are we talking "Linux, the kernel", or "Linux, the typical user experience"?
    - jeffbee 3y ago
      I reject the idea that a terrible UX is an integral part of Linux.
  - bmicraft 3y ago
    Kernel changes that are not in the upstream kernel yet for one
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    Inability to change DE, upgrade kernel, use kernel modules, etc.
  - jchw 3y ago
    Well, for starters, with dm-verity and secure boot to prevent modifications to the root filesystem. IMO it's beside the point. Calling ChromeOS "Linux" is like calling cells "mitochondria". One could argue that the same could be said about the somewhat standard Linux desktop stack you'd find on Ubuntu or Fedora installs, and that's true. However, that's probably mostly just a consequence of the fact that Linux doesn't have an actual standard userspace. The closest it has is the defacto set of components you're likely to find in any GNU/Linux distro, and they are quite different than what you'll find when you boot up ChromeOS or Android.
  - cthulberg 3y ago
    Disclaimer: I daily utilize a cheap Chromebook as a lightweight typewriter, and I love it. However, it's important to note that Linux on this device is subject to certain restrictions: It operates within a containerized environment, which limits both disk space allocation and system-wide access. Accessing the terminal requires navigating through a "virtual machine", and files are shared within the /mnt/chromeos directory. Additionally, the utilization of USB devices is layered behind the primary operating system support and Linux backups are separate from the overall operating system backups.
    - dreamcompiler 3y ago
      Yes. You're describing Crostini which I use often and like. Those constraints are fine with me. YMMV. If you want uncontainerized Linux you have to dual-boot. I used to do that but it's difficult and no longer worth the hassle IMO.
    - jchw 3y ago
      Something interesting about Crostini is that it uses 9p to bridge filesystems, just like WSL2. It seems that 9p has "cracked the code" on bridging filesystems over virtual machines and differing operating systems in a way that other options never seemed to do quite as seamlessly, which I find rather interesting. Maybe it's because it comes with less baggage than CIFS? Easier to extend? Less complex than NFSv4? I'd love some commentary on this.
      - jeffbee 3y ago
        The filesystem bridging between Crostini, the rest of ChromeOS, and Google Drive is brilliant. It also transparently integrates SSHFS into the filesystem and the file browser.
  - arcanemachiner 3y ago
    Is spyware.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  You may be talking about 2 different things: 1. Yes, ChromeOS is based on Linux, but it's not really what most people would refer to as "Linux". I think this is what you're talking about. 2. ChromeOS does have, however, some great technology to run an unrestricted version of Linux in a container, called Crostini: https://chromeos.dev/en/linux https://chromeos.dev/en/linux . I used to use a high end Pixel book (which was a great machine, really sad Google discontinued it - surprise, surprise, I know) as a primary dev laptop, it ran VSCode, postgres, etc. very well.
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    Yes, it is based on Linux, as are many televisions, car radios, phones, and other devices. That's my point re "smart" devices. Crostini is a VM, and isn't 100% unrestricted. I'd classify it in the same category as WSL or Parallels.
- isr 3y ago
  You can switch any chromebook into "developer mode". Then you get bash within the terminal app, with full sudo access. At that point, as you poke around, you find that chrome os is actually built on top of gentoo Linux. And there is a 3rd party pkg manager (chromebrew) which gives you gcc, and thus a whole host of additional pkgs. Yup, its linux all right. Even without going the crouton (chrome into another distro) or crossing (vm running separate linux distro) route.
dreamcompiler 3y ago
The Linux kernel has always been present in ChromeOS internally. But until about 2021, it was a PITA to convert Chrome machines to "real" Linux; you had to establish a dual-boot environment which was finicky and the process was different on every machine. But now Google has improved the process so you can basically just flip a switch and use the underlying Linux [0] [1]. It's kind of like WSL, but to me it feels like 100% Linux. [0] https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/install-linux-on-your-chromebook https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/install-linux-on-your-chromeboo... [1] On Intel Chromebooks. For ARM Chromebooks, you still need to dual-boot to get something that feels like "real" Linux. [2] [2] Which is kind of ironic given that ChromeOS can run Android apps now, and Android apps are ARM based [3], so they have to be run in emulation mode on Intel CPUs. [3] Okay they're bytecode based. Android apps on Intel Chromebooks used to run the JVM in emulation mode (I think) but there may now be a native Intel version of Dalvik or whatever-Google-calls-their-JVM-these-days.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  The 'flip a switch' is a bit of a shortcut, it usually isn't just a switch but can be a screw that acts as a jumper and you'll need to open the device to access it. Well worth it though, especially if you max them out on RAM after installing Linux and you can get them for little money as 'bricked' for instance out of contract dedicated Google Meet hardware.