8 ms·

Square where Julius Caesar was killed opens to the public in Rome

102 points by DamonHD 3y ago

DamonHD 3y ago
This story tickles because I have long supported the cat sanctuary mentioned at the end, and had no idea that this place was the "Et tu?" spot!
- bonzini 3y ago
  Me neither, I just knew it as 'the ruins with all the cats'.
  - jamesgreenleaf 3y ago
    Rome: built by wolves, inherited by cats.
    - franky47 3y ago
      From ancient Egypt to the Interwebs, cats have proven to be the final rulers of all things man-made.
- jaclaz 3y ago
  Only as a side note, the "Et tu (Brute)" is only in Shakespeare, the classic Latin being "Tu quoque (Brute, fili mi)", even if whatever was said (if anything) was more likely said in Greek which in the times of Ceasar was the language more used.
  - hguant 3y ago
    There's also some speculation that the Greek phrase he used was somewhat ritualistic and was potentially a curse, I believe acoup.blog or the associated Twitter account shared the research on that
    - jaclaz 3y ago
      It depends on which author you follow, the wikipedia page mentions (besides reports he said nothing) also reports he said something aimed to other people (not Brutus): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_words_of_Julius_Caesar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_words_of_Julius_Caesar
  - wazoox 3y ago
    "Kai su, teknon?", if we're to believe Suetonius.
    - meowface 3y ago
      The various interpretations are really fascinating. I didn't know about them. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_words_of_Julius_Caesar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_words_of_Julius_Caesar: >Though Suetonius, Cassius Dio and probably Plutarch as well seem to have believed that Caesar died without saying anything further, the first two reported that according to others Caesar had spoken the Greek phrase "καὶ σύ τέκνον" (Kaì sý, téknon - You too, child) to Brutus, as (in Suetonius) or after (in Dio) the latter struck at him. >The subject of this comment is, like in antiquity, almost universally believed to have been directed at Marcus Junius Brutus, who was the son of Caesar's favourite mistress Servilia, and was said to have been very dear to Caesar, but there has been speculation that the words may have actually been meant to be said to Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus with whom Caesar also had a very close relationship and on several occasions described as "like a son to him". Both men were rumoured at the time in Rome to be Caesar's illegitimate children. The possibility that Marcus Junius Brutus, however, was Caesar's son was viewed sceptically by ancient historians and broadly rejected by modern ones. >While téknon is often translated as "son", the word is gender-neutral and is more literally "child" or "offspring". The intended message of the term has also been interpreted as endearment, or an insult, and as a claim of actual paternity, though historians believe this is unlikely. The phrase's status as a question has been debated. >It has been argued that the phrase can be interpreted as a curse or warning instead, along the lines of "you too will die like this" or "may the same thing happen to you"; Brutus later stabbed himself to death, or rather threw himself onto a blade held by an attendant. One hypothesis states that the historic Caesar adapted the words of a Greek sentence which to the Romans had long since become proverbial: the complete phrase is said to have been "You too, my son, will have a bite of power", of which Caesar only needed to invoke the opening words to foreshadow Brutus' own violent death, in response to his assassination. I wasn't aware it was in Greek, and wasn't aware that there was a famous quote/proverb "kai su, teknon, tes arkhes hemon paratrokse" ("you too, my son, will have a bite of power") that it may have been referring to.
      - 3y ago
user3939382 3y ago
I recently read a biography on him. I had to stop about 60-70% through because I came to dislike him so much. Apparently he was, if not clinically, my understanding of a narcissistic sociopath.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  I did thrice offer him a kingly crown that he did thrice refuse, is this naracism? Ceasar was a ruler for the people. He increased the citizens grain allotment (doubled it?), took many captives for Rome and put the ransom towards the general fund and left most of what he owned to the people in his will. The people that killed him got to write history so they made him into a bad guy.
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    >did thrice offer him a kingly crown that he did thrice refuse, is this naracism It's politicking. He already had the power of a king, and knew the title would only harm him. It's why August called himself the "first citizen of Rome" rather than king or emperor. They weren't forgoing the power, just the title. >The people that killed him got to write history so they made him into a bad guy. Augustus got to write history on him, and that provided an overly rosy view that wasn't heavily questioned for centuries, likely still providing a rosy view of him two millennia later.
    - throwaway2048 3y ago
      Imperator (in English Emperor) was a title specifically invented by Augustus to avoid the title king. It might be roughly translated as "Commander", in a military sense.
      - boomboomsubban 3y ago
        You're right, he did go by imperator, my memory is poor, but his primary titles provided by the senate were "augustus" and "princeps."
      - 3y ago
bell-cot 3y ago
Obvious questions: What current-day political leaders were invited to the opening ceremony? Did any of them attend?
Solvency 3y ago
And just like that, millions of tourist photos of groups mock stabbing their friend in said square start to flood the social media networks.
- albertzeyer 3y ago
  I think tourists still will not be able to directly walk onto the square.
  - noisy_boy 3y ago
    > From Tuesday, visitors will be able to move through the site at ground level on the walkway and see the structures up close. > Non-residents will pay 5 euros ($5.50) to visit it.
    - wl 3y ago
      There's elevated walkways, like you'd find at a nature preserve to keep people from trampling the grass. You're not walking on the ground and you can only go where the walkways go.
- civilitty 3y ago
  My favorite new conspiracy is that they opened it days after Silvio Berlusconi died. Murdered in the square by the Senate of the Republic, where Caesar had fallen.
epolanski 3y ago
Hey I went to school literally 60 meters from there and I know what this is: yet another tourist grab! Don't get me wrong, the place is terrific and I have beautiful memories of it, it's a very interesting place to visit, but Julius Cesar was killed 60m from there exactly under my middle school.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  How do you know where he was killed more accurately than the claim by the tourist grab?
vilius 3y ago
Last winter, I visited Rome for the first time. I walked past this a couple of times. Everything was fenced, and as I continued my journey I just thought of it how inconvenient it is to walk around it. Unbeknownst to me, I was passing a place where Julius Caesar was killed. That pretty much sums up Rome - it is so enriched in history that you unwillingly become ignorant while exploring it.
- Tylast 3y ago
  The first time I went to Rome in 2001 and was near zero fencing. I remember walking the entire forum unencumbered. BUT, when I went back in 2012 & I couldn't walk any of it. I guess that's the price we pay to ensure it's preserved.
rob74 3y ago
> According to tradition, he died in the capital’s central Largo Argentina square - home to the remains of four temples. Because a square having the same name for more than 2000 years seemed unlikely, I checked Wikipedia, and no, Julius Caesar wasn't assassinated in Largo Argentina, but in the Curia of Pompey. But neither is the square named for Argentina (the country), as one might think: > The name of the square comes from the Torre Argentina, which takes its name from the city of Strasbourg whose Latin name was Argentoratum. In 1503, the Papal Master of Ceremonies Johannes Burckardt, who came from Strasbourg and was known as "Argentinus", built in via del Sudario a palace (now at number 44), called Casa del Burcardo, to which the tower is annexed. Julius Caesar was assassinated in the Curia of Pompey, and the spot where he is believed to have been assassinated is in the square.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  "Argentum" is "silver" in Latin (thus the chemical symbol Ag). Lots of places and things are named for it, including the country of Argentina.
- monocasa 3y ago
  > I checked Wikipedia, and no, Julius Caesar wasn't assassinated in Largo Argentina, but in the Curia of Pompey. The Curia of Pompey is a building, which is in the square now known as Largo Argentina. Since ceaser was assassinated on the steps of the curia facing the square, both are true. That being said, since the curia is long gone, the square is arguably the only thing you can actually see. Wikipedia seems to back this up.
- asveikau 3y ago
  > But neither is the square named for Argentina (the country) This is a really bizarre comment for anyone who knows about Latin languages. Argentina is an adjective form of the Latin word for silver. I expect tons of European stuff to have argentina in the name long before Europeans knew of the Americas. They named the South American country after silver, not the other way around.
- gandalfian 3y ago
  The Mayflower pilgrims departed for the New world from the ladies toilet of the Admiral pub, Plymouth. Geography changes over time with no sense of romance.
Sparkyte 3y ago
The man the myth the legend. Hard to exactly where somene was murdered, probably with history and an age before digital it is only so accurate. Even today we get it slightly wrong. This is pretty cool though.

102 points by DamonHD 3y ago

This story tickles because I have long supported the cat sanctuary mentioned at the end, and had no idea that this place was the "Et tu?" spot!

bonzini 3y ago
Me neither, I just knew it as 'the ruins with all the cats'.
- jamesgreenleaf 3y ago
  Rome: built by wolves, inherited by cats.
  - franky47 3y ago
    From ancient Egypt to the Interwebs, cats have proven to be the final rulers of all things man-made.
jaclaz 3y ago
Only as a side note, the "Et tu (Brute)" is only in Shakespeare, the classic Latin being "Tu quoque (Brute, fili mi)", even if whatever was said (if anything) was more likely said in Greek which in the times of Ceasar was the language more used.
- hguant 3y ago
  There's also some speculation that the Greek phrase he used was somewhat ritualistic and was potentially a curse, I believe acoup.blog or the associated Twitter account shared the research on that
  - jaclaz 3y ago
    It depends on which author you follow, the wikipedia page mentions (besides reports he said nothing) also reports he said something aimed to other people (not Brutus): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_words_of_Julius_Caesar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_words_of_Julius_Caesar
- wazoox 3y ago
  "Kai su, teknon?", if we're to believe Suetonius.
  - meowface 3y ago
    The various interpretations are really fascinating. I didn't know about them. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_words_of_Julius_Caesar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_words_of_Julius_Caesar: >Though Suetonius, Cassius Dio and probably Plutarch as well seem to have believed that Caesar died without saying anything further, the first two reported that according to others Caesar had spoken the Greek phrase "καὶ σύ τέκνον" (Kaì sý, téknon - You too, child) to Brutus, as (in Suetonius) or after (in Dio) the latter struck at him. >The subject of this comment is, like in antiquity, almost universally believed to have been directed at Marcus Junius Brutus, who was the son of Caesar's favourite mistress Servilia, and was said to have been very dear to Caesar, but there has been speculation that the words may have actually been meant to be said to Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus with whom Caesar also had a very close relationship and on several occasions described as "like a son to him". Both men were rumoured at the time in Rome to be Caesar's illegitimate children. The possibility that Marcus Junius Brutus, however, was Caesar's son was viewed sceptically by ancient historians and broadly rejected by modern ones. >While téknon is often translated as "son", the word is gender-neutral and is more literally "child" or "offspring". The intended message of the term has also been interpreted as endearment, or an insult, and as a claim of actual paternity, though historians believe this is unlikely. The phrase's status as a question has been debated. >It has been argued that the phrase can be interpreted as a curse or warning instead, along the lines of "you too will die like this" or "may the same thing happen to you"; Brutus later stabbed himself to death, or rather threw himself onto a blade held by an attendant. One hypothesis states that the historic Caesar adapted the words of a Greek sentence which to the Romans had long since become proverbial: the complete phrase is said to have been "You too, my son, will have a bite of power", of which Caesar only needed to invoke the opening words to foreshadow Brutus' own violent death, in response to his assassination. I wasn't aware it was in Greek, and wasn't aware that there was a famous quote/proverb "kai su, teknon, tes arkhes hemon paratrokse" ("you too, my son, will have a bite of power") that it may have been referring to.
    - 3y ago

user3939382 3y ago

I recently read a biography on him. I had to stop about 60-70% through because I came to dislike him so much. Apparently he was, if not clinically, my understanding of a narcissistic sociopath.

willcipriano 3y ago
I did thrice offer him a kingly crown that he did thrice refuse, is this naracism? Ceasar was a ruler for the people. He increased the citizens grain allotment (doubled it?), took many captives for Rome and put the ransom towards the general fund and left most of what he owned to the people in his will. The people that killed him got to write history so they made him into a bad guy.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  >did thrice offer him a kingly crown that he did thrice refuse, is this naracism It's politicking. He already had the power of a king, and knew the title would only harm him. It's why August called himself the "first citizen of Rome" rather than king or emperor. They weren't forgoing the power, just the title. >The people that killed him got to write history so they made him into a bad guy. Augustus got to write history on him, and that provided an overly rosy view that wasn't heavily questioned for centuries, likely still providing a rosy view of him two millennia later.
  - throwaway2048 3y ago
    Imperator (in English Emperor) was a title specifically invented by Augustus to avoid the title king. It might be roughly translated as "Commander", in a military sense.
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      You're right, he did go by imperator, my memory is poor, but his primary titles provided by the senate were "augustus" and "princeps."
    - 3y ago

bell-cot 3y ago

Obvious questions: What current-day political leaders were invited to the opening ceremony? Did any of them attend?

Solvency 3y ago

And just like that, millions of tourist photos of groups mock stabbing their friend in said square start to flood the social media networks.

albertzeyer 3y ago
I think tourists still will not be able to directly walk onto the square.
- noisy_boy 3y ago
  > From Tuesday, visitors will be able to move through the site at ground level on the walkway and see the structures up close. > Non-residents will pay 5 euros ($5.50) to visit it.
  - wl 3y ago
    There's elevated walkways, like you'd find at a nature preserve to keep people from trampling the grass. You're not walking on the ground and you can only go where the walkways go.
civilitty 3y ago
My favorite new conspiracy is that they opened it days after Silvio Berlusconi died. Murdered in the square by the Senate of the Republic, where Caesar had fallen.

epolanski 3y ago

Hey I went to school literally 60 meters from there and I know what this is: yet another tourist grab! Don't get me wrong, the place is terrific and I have beautiful memories of it, it's a very interesting place to visit, but Julius Cesar was killed 60m from there exactly under my middle school.

jjtheblunt 3y ago
How do you know where he was killed more accurately than the claim by the tourist grab?

vilius 3y ago

Last winter, I visited Rome for the first time. I walked past this a couple of times. Everything was fenced, and as I continued my journey I just thought of it how inconvenient it is to walk around it. Unbeknownst to me, I was passing a place where Julius Caesar was killed. That pretty much sums up Rome - it is so enriched in history that you unwillingly become ignorant while exploring it.

Tylast 3y ago
The first time I went to Rome in 2001 and was near zero fencing. I remember walking the entire forum unencumbered. BUT, when I went back in 2012 & I couldn't walk any of it. I guess that's the price we pay to ensure it's preserved.

rob74 3y ago

> According to tradition, he died in the capital’s central Largo Argentina square - home to the remains of four temples. Because a square having the same name for more than 2000 years seemed unlikely, I checked Wikipedia, and no, Julius Caesar wasn't assassinated in Largo Argentina, but in the Curia of Pompey. But neither is the square named for Argentina (the country), as one might think: > The name of the square comes from the Torre Argentina, which takes its name from the city of Strasbourg whose Latin name was Argentoratum. In 1503, the Papal Master of Ceremonies Johannes Burckardt, who came from Strasbourg and was known as "Argentinus", built in via del Sudario a palace (now at number 44), called Casa del Burcardo, to which the tower is annexed. Julius Caesar was assassinated in the Curia of Pompey, and the spot where he is believed to have been assassinated is in the square.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
"Argentum" is "silver" in Latin (thus the chemical symbol Ag). Lots of places and things are named for it, including the country of Argentina.
monocasa 3y ago
> I checked Wikipedia, and no, Julius Caesar wasn't assassinated in Largo Argentina, but in the Curia of Pompey. The Curia of Pompey is a building, which is in the square now known as Largo Argentina. Since ceaser was assassinated on the steps of the curia facing the square, both are true. That being said, since the curia is long gone, the square is arguably the only thing you can actually see. Wikipedia seems to back this up.
asveikau 3y ago
> But neither is the square named for Argentina (the country) This is a really bizarre comment for anyone who knows about Latin languages. Argentina is an adjective form of the Latin word for silver. I expect tons of European stuff to have argentina in the name long before Europeans knew of the Americas. They named the South American country after silver, not the other way around.
gandalfian 3y ago
The Mayflower pilgrims departed for the New world from the ladies toilet of the Admiral pub, Plymouth. Geography changes over time with no sense of romance.

Sparkyte 3y ago

The man the myth the legend. Hard to exactly where somene was murdered, probably with history and an age before digital it is only so accurate. Even today we get it slightly wrong. This is pretty cool though.