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> Discord, for its faults, does not have the same issues. Yet. Reddit was a friend when Digg died. Any closed platform can do whatever they want whenever they

> Discord, for its faults, does not have the same issues. Yet. Reddit was a friend when Digg died. Any closed platform can do whatever they want whenever they want and as soon as they decide to start making money. I wouldn’t trust discord to not pull a Reddit in a few years. Not. Your. Platform. Not. Your. Content.

aflag 3y ago
Discord already makes it very clear you don't own the data in the platform, but you do have a lot of freedom to moderate as you please.
- inhumantsar 3y ago
  For now
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Exactly same scene playing out with a different timeline. Anyone using discord and complaining about the reddit changes must be new to all of this
    - noirbot 3y ago
      Or we're very used to all of this and are relatively fine migrating to the next new place that is still in the "pretending to be good" phase. A social network isn't a bank or a house. I'm not using it with the assumption that I'll grow old and die still using it. When Discord gets bad, I'll move to something else. Or if Matrix or whatever else comes along and is a good option, I'll move to it just like I moved to Discord from TeamSpeak and the dying forum I was on.
bee_rider 3y ago
In my not so educated opinion, federated networks seem to be the way toward permanently fixing this issue. But, they don’t seem to be quite ready yet. It is inevitable that Discord will also become terrible eventually, but they might be the last centralized social network.
- stingraycharles 3y ago
  Federated social networks have been talked about for decades, I have yet to see it gain any traction. I’d be happy if I ever saw one taking off in my lifetime, but the economic incentives are just not there.
- ryathal 3y ago
  I don't think federation is a good solution without a way to also centralize those communities. Discoverability and overlapping communities leads to way too much balkanization.
nobleach 3y ago
This is a cycle we can expect for any platform that has the bills. Hosting is not free. Storage is not free. Bandwidth is not free. Labor to fix bugs and develop features is not free. So this constant expectation that it should all be free (or even cheap) is not a realistic world view. We joke about the fact that "the cloud" isn't real, it's just someone else's computer. But isn't that kinda the basis of the current delusion? "We want to have complete freedom, be completely safe, get the features we want, have it for free and... don't bother me with any advertisement".
- a4a4a4a4 3y ago
  I don't think any of the third part devs are asking for it to be free. The Apollo devs initial response to the announcement was "I'm honestly looking forward to the pricing and the stuff you're rolling out provided it's enough to keep me with a job. You guys seem nothing but reasonable, so I'm looking to finding out more." Then they announced pricing which is 29x the current revenue per user, and are blocking NSFW content from the API anyway. Latest update from him: https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_t...
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  I do free community building all the time, both irl and online and can tell you the #1 thing lacking ... leaders. We could have exactly what you describe but people just don't step up and take responsibility and leadership. Its frustrating, exhausting and disheartening to constantly be dragging people into taking care of each other.
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    As someone with similar experience, 100% agree. Free, competent, altruistically interested Pick two when looking for leaders. The "volunteer leader problem" boils down to looking for an altruistic individual who's capable and willing to put up with a ton of shit for... love of X. There aren't many. There shouldn't be any, but some people are awesome. In reality, you end up having to substitute some package of incentives (prestige, authority, etc.) in order to entice on-the-fence candidates, and then ride herd on ensuring they don't succumb to their baser instincts. So when mods say mod tools are important, what they're really saying is: "I put up with a lot of shit, to make you money, and I don't get paid. Give me something in return that makes me feel like you're thankful." Reddit's been pretty bad, historically and presently, at doing that.
mistermann 3y ago
> Reddit was a friend when Digg died. Any closed platform can do whatever they want whenever they want and as soon as they decide to start making money. Who was running Reddit back then? Leadership matters. Take climate change for example, or anything really.
softsound 3y ago
Looking at who created Discord, I would agree. They will start selling data a lot and do other stuff when the numbers get big like they did with their other business but for now it's a smooth ride on freeness.
8note 3y ago
> Not. Your. Content. It is my content, but I've licensed it. The platform existing doesn't take away copyright law
- ornornor 3y ago
  Okay yeah sure, technically. In practice, you have little to no control over it or your audience and good luck migrating it when you feel like it or when the platform turns hostile.

aflag 3y ago

Discord already makes it very clear you don't own the data in the platform, but you do have a lot of freedom to moderate as you please.

inhumantsar 3y ago
For now
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Exactly same scene playing out with a different timeline. Anyone using discord and complaining about the reddit changes must be new to all of this
  - noirbot 3y ago
    Or we're very used to all of this and are relatively fine migrating to the next new place that is still in the "pretending to be good" phase. A social network isn't a bank or a house. I'm not using it with the assumption that I'll grow old and die still using it. When Discord gets bad, I'll move to something else. Or if Matrix or whatever else comes along and is a good option, I'll move to it just like I moved to Discord from TeamSpeak and the dying forum I was on.

bee_rider 3y ago

In my not so educated opinion, federated networks seem to be the way toward permanently fixing this issue. But, they don’t seem to be quite ready yet. It is inevitable that Discord will also become terrible eventually, but they might be the last centralized social network.

stingraycharles 3y ago
Federated social networks have been talked about for decades, I have yet to see it gain any traction. I’d be happy if I ever saw one taking off in my lifetime, but the economic incentives are just not there.
ryathal 3y ago
I don't think federation is a good solution without a way to also centralize those communities. Discoverability and overlapping communities leads to way too much balkanization.

nobleach 3y ago

This is a cycle we can expect for any platform that has the bills. Hosting is not free. Storage is not free. Bandwidth is not free. Labor to fix bugs and develop features is not free. So this constant expectation that it should all be free (or even cheap) is not a realistic world view. We joke about the fact that "the cloud" isn't real, it's just someone else's computer. But isn't that kinda the basis of the current delusion? "We want to have complete freedom, be completely safe, get the features we want, have it for free and... don't bother me with any advertisement".

a4a4a4a4 3y ago
I don't think any of the third part devs are asking for it to be free. The Apollo devs initial response to the announcement was "I'm honestly looking forward to the pricing and the stuff you're rolling out provided it's enough to keep me with a job. You guys seem nothing but reasonable, so I'm looking to finding out more." Then they announced pricing which is 29x the current revenue per user, and are blocking NSFW content from the API anyway. Latest update from him: https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_t...
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
I do free community building all the time, both irl and online and can tell you the #1 thing lacking ... leaders. We could have exactly what you describe but people just don't step up and take responsibility and leadership. Its frustrating, exhausting and disheartening to constantly be dragging people into taking care of each other.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  As someone with similar experience, 100% agree. Free, competent, altruistically interested Pick two when looking for leaders. The "volunteer leader problem" boils down to looking for an altruistic individual who's capable and willing to put up with a ton of shit for... love of X. There aren't many. There shouldn't be any, but some people are awesome. In reality, you end up having to substitute some package of incentives (prestige, authority, etc.) in order to entice on-the-fence candidates, and then ride herd on ensuring they don't succumb to their baser instincts. So when mods say mod tools are important, what they're really saying is: "I put up with a lot of shit, to make you money, and I don't get paid. Give me something in return that makes me feel like you're thankful." Reddit's been pretty bad, historically and presently, at doing that.

mistermann 3y ago

> Reddit was a friend when Digg died. Any closed platform can do whatever they want whenever they want and as soon as they decide to start making money. Who was running Reddit back then? Leadership matters. Take climate change for example, or anything really.

softsound 3y ago

Looking at who created Discord, I would agree. They will start selling data a lot and do other stuff when the numbers get big like they did with their other business but for now it's a smooth ride on freeness.

8note 3y ago

> Not. Your. Content. It is my content, but I've licensed it. The platform existing doesn't take away copyright law

ornornor 3y ago
Okay yeah sure, technically. In practice, you have little to no control over it or your audience and good luck migrating it when you feel like it or when the platform turns hostile.