6 ms·

So they just expelled one of the people that helped make Reddit what it is today? No loyalty at all is there.

by drumhead 3y ago

tinus_hn 3y ago
[flagged]
- nindalf 3y ago
  They were expressing their loyalties by saying they want to keep working for free for the company … as long as their tools aren’t deliberately broken by the company. Moderators can’t moderate without the API.
  - yanderekko 3y ago
    >They were expressing their loyalties by saying they want to keep working for free for the company … as long as their tools aren’t deliberately broken by the company Reddit is under no obligation to find these terms acceptable. Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API.
    - lijok 3y ago
      > Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API. Practically, and literally impossible. There's CP and other illegal material being posted in these subs every second. Without API access, you have to have dozens of moderators at all times checking every single incoming post.
      - kristopolous 3y ago
        Not to mention spam. There's lots of bots posting just avalanches of garbage upvoted by click farms. It's like these people are coming in driving cars and Reddit management is offering a sturdy pair of walking shoes to try to keep up with them.
        typon 3y ago
        Reddit found the one real solution for dealing with spam (human workers) for FREE and pissed it down the drain.
        kristopolous 3y ago
        I think it's an exemplar of what's wrong with the modern firm. C-level management seems to be an insular royal court far removed from the actual mechanics of what makes their company run and not familiar with where the hard work is done and what's the value lost in getting rid of it. It's destructively hierarchical and makes things undirected, disjointed and clashing. Incoherent executions and incredulous decisions abound. The current practices are clearly idiotic.
        Howitzer 3y ago
        Maybe exactly because of this. Every social media is battling spam, and Reddit hasn't to such an extent. They don't know the value of what they have
        yanderekko 3y ago
        Except it wasn't actually free, that's the entire issue..
        typon 3y ago
        The labour was free - the tools required were not. That's a miniscule cost compared to the labour if they _actually_ had to pay for it.
        yanderekko 3y ago
        Okay, but Reddit would sensibly prefer free labor + cheap tooling over free labor + costly tooling.
      - yanderekko 3y ago
        So you seriously expect that when June 30th rolls around, basically all major subs are going to be flooded with CP and moderators across the site will be overwhelmed, plunging everything into chaos? That's an amazing prediction - guess we'll see how it plays out.
        lijok 3y ago
        I wonder whether Reddit C-suite are thinking exactly like this and that's what's causing these misguided decisions.
        yanderekko 3y ago
        I mean, if moderating is going to become literally impossible than the moderators should provide more sober, detailed arguments for why this is the case. As far as I'm aware this just hasn't been done. It's just "we have these tools we like and we don't want to lose them", which is a far weaker argument. If there's a serious rationale for why moderating will suddenly require 10x the effort or whatever as before, I'd love to see it.
        lijok 3y ago
        Fully agree
      - randomdata 3y ago
        > There's CP and other illegal material being posted in these subs every second. Oh well? That is a job for the police to deal with, not an unpaid moderator with a hobby. If you want to help out in your free time, cool, but beyond that, who cares?
        lijok 3y ago
        What argument in response to "Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API." are you making here?
        randomdata 3y ago
        Of what purpose would getting into an argument serve? I ask, why would a mod care if someone else posts something illegal to a forum they don't own?
        lijok 3y ago
        That is a great question, but not what is being discussed in this thread
        randomdata 3y ago
        It is what is being dicussed in this thread branch, stemming from a statement made closer to the root, contextually identified in earlier supplied quote. You don't have to participate in the topic if is not of interest to you, but given that you have shown interest in that topic by replying multiple times now, let's hear what you've got. Or not. Nobody cares. The comment was never for or about you. If you disappear we'll never notice.
        lijok 3y ago
        You've lost me pal. The discussion was about whether or not subs can be moderated without API access.
    - poulpy123 3y ago
      nasty moderator who not only work for free to make money for reddit but also want to keep their tools to make their work easier
    - brohee 3y ago
      This statement is supported by you being a long-standing moderator of which subreddit again?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - tinus_hn 3y ago
    Then clearly the only remaining option is to leave. The company doesn’t want them to keep working for free on the old terms, only on the new terms. We’ll see if they are so irreplaceable as they claim.
- Quarrel 3y ago
  > by trying to damage the company A lot of the voices and mods that are most prominent are saying that it is Spez that is actively damaging the company. Christian, Apollo's author, gives a good write up of the recent developments: https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/ https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_t... One thing missing from this is that obviously reddit is seeing OpenAI and others training AIs on their data and taking the wrong lessons from it. They're hitting the wrong people with misplaced understanding of where the value lies and how to capture it. Instead Spez seems to see Elon's taking the sword to Twitter as a role model, which I think misunderstands the structural damage that Elon has done to the Twitter community.
  - tinus_hn 3y ago
    I presume these people have never had a job, where there just is someone else who decides what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. If they did they would see they signed up for a job but with no pay. The community sees ‘the damage Elon has done to the community’. Corporate sees a company bleeding money being turned around. Regardless if it’s going to work out, investors aren’t going to be happy if their investments have turned into a great community and a monetary loss. It’s not a charity. So they appreciate someone coming in and putting a stop to the charity work and trying to start making money. That’s why the people that matter, the people with a lot of money, put literal billions of dollars on the line so Musk could buy Twitter. While the people that don’t really matter, the people that block ads, the people that don’t pay, the people that don’t want to play along with the plan to make money, are ignored. Money talks, bs walks.
tgv 3y ago
Money trumps loyalty (family, friendship). "We thank you for your service." It's unpleasant, but completely in line with what's happened to the internet over the last 20+ years. It has to look good for the IPO. The ones with the shares don't care what happens after that.
- Tangurena2 3y ago
  There's a common saying: "Nothing Personal It's Strictly Busines".
ChatGTP 3y ago
The CEO of Reddit watched an interview with Elon Musk and decided that it was time to cut back on staff to save money? \s
- Zeyka 3y ago
  Yes, he said he was inspired by Musk's handling of Twitter...
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  And, like most people dissing Musk on the Internet, he saw Musk cutting back on Twitter staff to save money and somehow understood from it that he needs to drive away unpaid volunteers that generate money, instead of, ya know, cutting back on actual employees, of which Reddit apparently has way more than it should.
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    Yes, nothing like getting rid of high value employees that work for free.
powera 3y ago
I am more inclined to believe this is "a cabal of toxic moderators have revealed what they are, and Reddit is rightly removing them from the project". When loyalty is a facade to keep malevolent people in power, it is no virtue.

So they just expelled one of the people that helped make Reddit what it is today? No loyalty at all is there.

tinus_hn 3y ago

[flagged]

nindalf 3y ago
They were expressing their loyalties by saying they want to keep working for free for the company … as long as their tools aren’t deliberately broken by the company. Moderators can’t moderate without the API.
- yanderekko 3y ago
  >They were expressing their loyalties by saying they want to keep working for free for the company … as long as their tools aren’t deliberately broken by the company Reddit is under no obligation to find these terms acceptable. Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API.
  - lijok 3y ago
    > Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API. Practically, and literally impossible. There's CP and other illegal material being posted in these subs every second. Without API access, you have to have dozens of moderators at all times checking every single incoming post.
    - kristopolous 3y ago
      Not to mention spam. There's lots of bots posting just avalanches of garbage upvoted by click farms. It's like these people are coming in driving cars and Reddit management is offering a sturdy pair of walking shoes to try to keep up with them.
      - typon 3y ago
        Reddit found the one real solution for dealing with spam (human workers) for FREE and pissed it down the drain.
        kristopolous 3y ago
        I think it's an exemplar of what's wrong with the modern firm. C-level management seems to be an insular royal court far removed from the actual mechanics of what makes their company run and not familiar with where the hard work is done and what's the value lost in getting rid of it. It's destructively hierarchical and makes things undirected, disjointed and clashing. Incoherent executions and incredulous decisions abound. The current practices are clearly idiotic.
        Howitzer 3y ago
        Maybe exactly because of this. Every social media is battling spam, and Reddit hasn't to such an extent. They don't know the value of what they have
        yanderekko 3y ago
        Except it wasn't actually free, that's the entire issue..
        typon 3y ago
        The labour was free - the tools required were not. That's a miniscule cost compared to the labour if they _actually_ had to pay for it.
        yanderekko 3y ago
        Okay, but Reddit would sensibly prefer free labor + cheap tooling over free labor + costly tooling.
    - yanderekko 3y ago
      So you seriously expect that when June 30th rolls around, basically all major subs are going to be flooded with CP and moderators across the site will be overwhelmed, plunging everything into chaos? That's an amazing prediction - guess we'll see how it plays out.
      - lijok 3y ago
        I wonder whether Reddit C-suite are thinking exactly like this and that's what's causing these misguided decisions.
        yanderekko 3y ago
        I mean, if moderating is going to become literally impossible than the moderators should provide more sober, detailed arguments for why this is the case. As far as I'm aware this just hasn't been done. It's just "we have these tools we like and we don't want to lose them", which is a far weaker argument. If there's a serious rationale for why moderating will suddenly require 10x the effort or whatever as before, I'd love to see it.
        lijok 3y ago
        Fully agree
    - randomdata 3y ago
      > There's CP and other illegal material being posted in these subs every second. Oh well? That is a job for the police to deal with, not an unpaid moderator with a hobby. If you want to help out in your free time, cool, but beyond that, who cares?
      - lijok 3y ago
        What argument in response to "Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API." are you making here?
        randomdata 3y ago
        Of what purpose would getting into an argument serve? I ask, why would a mod care if someone else posts something illegal to a forum they don't own?
        lijok 3y ago
        That is a great question, but not what is being discussed in this thread
        randomdata 3y ago
        It is what is being dicussed in this thread branch, stemming from a statement made closer to the root, contextually identified in earlier supplied quote. You don't have to participate in the topic if is not of interest to you, but given that you have shown interest in that topic by replying multiple times now, let's hear what you've got. Or not. Nobody cares. The comment was never for or about you. If you disappear we'll never notice.
        lijok 3y ago
        You've lost me pal. The discussion was about whether or not subs can be moderated without API access.
  - poulpy123 3y ago
    nasty moderator who not only work for free to make money for reddit but also want to keep their tools to make their work easier
  - brohee 3y ago
    This statement is supported by you being a long-standing moderator of which subreddit again?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- tinus_hn 3y ago
  Then clearly the only remaining option is to leave. The company doesn’t want them to keep working for free on the old terms, only on the new terms. We’ll see if they are so irreplaceable as they claim.
Quarrel 3y ago
> by trying to damage the company A lot of the voices and mods that are most prominent are saying that it is Spez that is actively damaging the company. Christian, Apollo's author, gives a good write up of the recent developments: https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/ https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_t... One thing missing from this is that obviously reddit is seeing OpenAI and others training AIs on their data and taking the wrong lessons from it. They're hitting the wrong people with misplaced understanding of where the value lies and how to capture it. Instead Spez seems to see Elon's taking the sword to Twitter as a role model, which I think misunderstands the structural damage that Elon has done to the Twitter community.
- tinus_hn 3y ago
  I presume these people have never had a job, where there just is someone else who decides what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. If they did they would see they signed up for a job but with no pay. The community sees ‘the damage Elon has done to the community’. Corporate sees a company bleeding money being turned around. Regardless if it’s going to work out, investors aren’t going to be happy if their investments have turned into a great community and a monetary loss. It’s not a charity. So they appreciate someone coming in and putting a stop to the charity work and trying to start making money. That’s why the people that matter, the people with a lot of money, put literal billions of dollars on the line so Musk could buy Twitter. While the people that don’t really matter, the people that block ads, the people that don’t pay, the people that don’t want to play along with the plan to make money, are ignored. Money talks, bs walks.

tgv 3y ago

Money trumps loyalty (family, friendship). "We thank you for your service." It's unpleasant, but completely in line with what's happened to the internet over the last 20+ years. It has to look good for the IPO. The ones with the shares don't care what happens after that.

Tangurena2 3y ago
There's a common saying: "Nothing Personal It's Strictly Busines".

ChatGTP 3y ago

The CEO of Reddit watched an interview with Elon Musk and decided that it was time to cut back on staff to save money? \s

Zeyka 3y ago
Yes, he said he was inspired by Musk's handling of Twitter...
TeMPOraL 3y ago
And, like most people dissing Musk on the Internet, he saw Musk cutting back on Twitter staff to save money and somehow understood from it that he needs to drive away unpaid volunteers that generate money, instead of, ya know, cutting back on actual employees, of which Reddit apparently has way more than it should.
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  Yes, nothing like getting rid of high value employees that work for free.

powera 3y ago

I am more inclined to believe this is "a cabal of toxic moderators have revealed what they are, and Reddit is rightly removing them from the project". When loyalty is a facade to keep malevolent people in power, it is no virtue.