4 ms·

Great Microprocessors of the Past and Present (2003)

50 points by msla 3y ago

msla 3y ago
It's version 13.4.0 but I figured the year of the last revision would be more useful. Previously (only ones with comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=641376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=641376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1050087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1050087
- theandrewbailey 3y ago
  If another version was produced, I wonder what CPUs would be included. I find it mildly irritating that all x86 CPUs (along with Itanium) are talked about under the "Part VII: Intel 8086, IBM's choice (1978)" heading, and doesn't break out the 386 or Pentiums, and likewise with ARM.
  - SpecialistK 3y ago
    Or the SledgeHammer Opteron, which had a number of (x86) innovations like 64 bit and integrated memory controller. With Intel betting on the dead-ends of Netburst and Itanium, it's possible to envision a very different computing landscape if AMD hadn't gone down that route.
forinti 3y ago
I recently took apart an Entex Pacman2 which I still have from my childhood. I found this strange CPU in it (and not much else): Hitachi HD388A20. It belongs to a family of 4 bit processors (HMSC40) with 10 bit words and 10-12 address lines (512 bytes to 4KB). It's a weird little thing. You can still find the manuals online. They have pins that drive the display directly and some addresses are for storing bit patterns which you can move directly to the display. I guess many portable games from the 80s must have used these chips, but I had never heard of it.
- Donckele 3y ago
  You got any links to info about those chips?
  - forinti 3y ago
    Check out this page: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/hitachi/hmcs40 https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/hitachi/hmcs40 And this manual: https://www.manualslib.com/products/Hitachi-Ap1-10557785.html https://www.manualslib.com/products/Hitachi-Ap1-10557785.htm...
mepian 3y ago
Section Seven would benefit from a few more entries: the MIT Scheme chips, the Texas Instruments Explorer II / microExplorer, and the Symbolics Ivory. https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/5731 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/5731 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6334 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6334 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1317224.1317226 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1317224.1317226 https://gwern.net/doc/cs/hardware/1987-baker.pdf https://gwern.net/doc/cs/hardware/1987-baker.pdf
johnklos 3y ago
In 2023, not counting x86, I'm still using seven of these great processor architectures. NetBSD support is quite good :) https://zia.io/notice/AWDclbEuAQSxu4UIZk https://zia.io/notice/AWDclbEuAQSxu4UIZk
zwieback 3y ago
My youth: Z80, 6502 Micros I used: 8051, PIC, AVR, MSP430 Mainstream CPUs: 68000, x86 DSPs: TMS320Cxx (no SHarc?) Missing from this list: NIOS II and other soft cores and anything ARM. Maybe they are not supposed to be here.
- stevesimmons 3y ago
  That's my list exactly. What a trip down 40 years of programming! * 6502 in my Vic20 and Apple ][, as a teenager (both computers' manuals had complete circuit schematics) * Z80 assembly during my Elec Eng degree * 8051 assembly for embedded systems I built for some consulting clients during my PhD * DSPs including DSP32C (1992) and TMS320Cxx, considered for radar processing during my PhD (though by that stage, the 486 turned out to be good enough!) * x86 for everything else. Especially once PCs came with the x87 floating point processors (for 386, before the 486 integrated the FPU into the CPU).
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    Oh, the nostalgia! I remember the first "holy war" I was ever exposed to was Z80 vs 6502.
    - zwieback 3y ago
      I had a Z80 CP/M card in my 6502 computer (Apple ][) but my heart was always on the 6502 side.
    - stevesimmons 3y ago
      My first exposure to the Z80 was via Rodnay Zaks's book [1]. And, just because I was curious, here's the Vic-20's 6502 circuit diagram [2] [1] https://archive.org/details/Programming_the_Z-80_2nd_Edition_1980_Rodnay_Zaks/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Programming_the_Z-80_2nd_Edition... [2] https://www.vic-20.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/VIC-20-Schematic-Main-Logic-Version-E.pdf https://www.vic-20.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/VIC-20-Sche... P.S. Fun fact - my mobile phone number ends "6502" :)
sillywalk 3y ago
That Sun MAJC one was interesting, and takes me back to an article[0] by Hannibal from Ars Technica on IA64 (Itanium) and MAJC[1]. MAJC was only used in a couple of Sun Microsystems video cards, and design ideas went into the SPARC T series. - Variable Length instruction packets - The functional units/execution units were general, i.e. no specific ones for Floating Point. - The compiler was tied to a particular implementation of a MAJC processor, so Java was to be the language for it - ship app in Java bytecode, compile to implementation with a JVM for the particular chip. [0] https://archive.arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/majc/majc-1.html https://archive.arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/majc/majc-1.html [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAJC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAJC
pajko 3y ago
If the article were (2006), it would have mentioned Parallax Propeller: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Propeller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Propeller
agapon 3y ago
Hmm, section 4 https://www.cpushack.com/CPU/cpu4.html https://www.cpushack.com/CPU/cpu4.html is empty?

50 points by msla 3y ago

msla 3y ago

It's version 13.4.0 but I figured the year of the last revision would be more useful. Previously (only ones with comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=641376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=641376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1050087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1050087

theandrewbailey 3y ago
If another version was produced, I wonder what CPUs would be included. I find it mildly irritating that all x86 CPUs (along with Itanium) are talked about under the "Part VII: Intel 8086, IBM's choice (1978)" heading, and doesn't break out the 386 or Pentiums, and likewise with ARM.
- SpecialistK 3y ago
  Or the SledgeHammer Opteron, which had a number of (x86) innovations like 64 bit and integrated memory controller. With Intel betting on the dead-ends of Netburst and Itanium, it's possible to envision a very different computing landscape if AMD hadn't gone down that route.

forinti 3y ago

I recently took apart an Entex Pacman2 which I still have from my childhood. I found this strange CPU in it (and not much else): Hitachi HD388A20. It belongs to a family of 4 bit processors (HMSC40) with 10 bit words and 10-12 address lines (512 bytes to 4KB). It's a weird little thing. You can still find the manuals online. They have pins that drive the display directly and some addresses are for storing bit patterns which you can move directly to the display. I guess many portable games from the 80s must have used these chips, but I had never heard of it.

Donckele 3y ago
You got any links to info about those chips?
- forinti 3y ago
  Check out this page: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/hitachi/hmcs40 https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/hitachi/hmcs40 And this manual: https://www.manualslib.com/products/Hitachi-Ap1-10557785.html https://www.manualslib.com/products/Hitachi-Ap1-10557785.htm...

mepian 3y ago

Section Seven would benefit from a few more entries: the MIT Scheme chips, the Texas Instruments Explorer II / microExplorer, and the Symbolics Ivory. https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/5731 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/5731 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6334 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6334 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1317224.1317226 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1317224.1317226 https://gwern.net/doc/cs/hardware/1987-baker.pdf https://gwern.net/doc/cs/hardware/1987-baker.pdf

johnklos 3y ago

In 2023, not counting x86, I'm still using seven of these great processor architectures. NetBSD support is quite good :) https://zia.io/notice/AWDclbEuAQSxu4UIZk https://zia.io/notice/AWDclbEuAQSxu4UIZk

zwieback 3y ago

My youth: Z80, 6502 Micros I used: 8051, PIC, AVR, MSP430 Mainstream CPUs: 68000, x86 DSPs: TMS320Cxx (no SHarc?) Missing from this list: NIOS II and other soft cores and anything ARM. Maybe they are not supposed to be here.

stevesimmons 3y ago
That's my list exactly. What a trip down 40 years of programming! * 6502 in my Vic20 and Apple ][, as a teenager (both computers' manuals had complete circuit schematics) * Z80 assembly during my Elec Eng degree * 8051 assembly for embedded systems I built for some consulting clients during my PhD * DSPs including DSP32C (1992) and TMS320Cxx, considered for radar processing during my PhD (though by that stage, the 486 turned out to be good enough!) * x86 for everything else. Especially once PCs came with the x87 floating point processors (for 386, before the 486 integrated the FPU into the CPU).
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Oh, the nostalgia! I remember the first "holy war" I was ever exposed to was Z80 vs 6502.
  - zwieback 3y ago
    I had a Z80 CP/M card in my 6502 computer (Apple ][) but my heart was always on the 6502 side.
  - stevesimmons 3y ago
    My first exposure to the Z80 was via Rodnay Zaks's book [1]. And, just because I was curious, here's the Vic-20's 6502 circuit diagram [2] [1] https://archive.org/details/Programming_the_Z-80_2nd_Edition_1980_Rodnay_Zaks/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Programming_the_Z-80_2nd_Edition... [2] https://www.vic-20.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/VIC-20-Schematic-Main-Logic-Version-E.pdf https://www.vic-20.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/VIC-20-Sche... P.S. Fun fact - my mobile phone number ends "6502" :)

sillywalk 3y ago

That Sun MAJC one was interesting, and takes me back to an article[0] by Hannibal from Ars Technica on IA64 (Itanium) and MAJC[1]. MAJC was only used in a couple of Sun Microsystems video cards, and design ideas went into the SPARC T series. - Variable Length instruction packets - The functional units/execution units were general, i.e. no specific ones for Floating Point. - The compiler was tied to a particular implementation of a MAJC processor, so Java was to be the language for it - ship app in Java bytecode, compile to implementation with a JVM for the particular chip. [0] https://archive.arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/majc/majc-1.html https://archive.arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/majc/majc-1.html [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAJC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAJC

pajko 3y ago

If the article were (2006), it would have mentioned Parallax Propeller: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Propeller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Propeller

agapon 3y ago

Hmm, section 4 https://www.cpushack.com/CPU/cpu4.html https://www.cpushack.com/CPU/cpu4.html is empty?