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If you squint a bit, the "original" MVC looks eerily similar to the one-way data flow pattern popularized by flux/redux. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_(s

If you squint a bit, the "original" MVC looks eerily similar to the one-way data flow pattern popularized by flux/redux. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_(software)#Unidirectional_data_flow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_(software)#Unidirectiona... edit: better link

dfox 3y ago
Indeed, what the various “reactive” frameworks do is in the end the idea behind MVC, although as they are web-based the implementation is ridiculously complex and the abstraction is very leaky.
scrame 3y ago
the purest mvc demo is pong.
laurent123456 3y ago
In many ways it's really just MVC (at least the fat model / skinny controller style) except they renamed the elements: - Dispatcher = Controller - Store = Model - View = View And the actions are the messages sent from the user to the controller.
MrPatan 3y ago
It may be a matter of explaining it differently. Maybe just the names! But I never "got" MVC, and I got the one way data flow pattern straight away. Maybe I was just old enough to get the point that time around.
- breadwinner 3y ago
  MVC is one-way. Some people think MVC is two-way data binding. That's MVVC actually.
- PlunderBunny 3y ago
  I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't get MVC. I can sort of understand it if I study a real example for a long time, but to doesn't stick. Sometimes I want to think that learning to code in the days of 8-bit computers is somehow incompatible with a lot of modern programming concepts, but maybe I'm just old and tired.
tracker1 3y ago
I think flux/redux is generally cleaner imo. But have had a tendency to think of it that way. MVC usually feels like spaghetti in contrast. And while Redux/Flux takes some mental overhead, I see so many fewer side effects in UIs that use the approach.
DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
> MVC looks eerily similar to the one-way data flow pattern popularized by flux/redux. I'm not seeing it. From TFA: > Views: A visual representation of a model. Views are updated by querying the model directly, and are notified by the model of updates. A view can update it’s model directly. A view should never know about things like keyboard and mouse events directly. I'd like to emphasise the "a view can update its model directly" part - which is exactly what Redux and React are designed to prevent: when logic in a view can mutate the model (especially when the view _also_ depends on update notifications from the model to update itself) things get impossible to reason-about. Instead, Redux/React is designed to force the view to "update" the model indirectly via actions and reducers. Another tenet of Redux+React is that the model ("state" in Redux/React) is an immutable object-graph which is replaced on every update, whereas "classical" MVC requires a mutable, long-life'd model. I feel the similarities only exist if you squint - and if you're lumping TFA's idea of MVC with React (and MVVM (groan...)) as ideas in opposition to how most people wrote/write RAD/VB6/WinForms by directly subclassing controls and overriding message-pump event-handler methods, which (I hope) everyone will agree is an approach that doesn't scale beyond building throwaway UIs.
preommr 3y ago
If you squint almost of all software looks like MVC because it's essentially just, input(data)/processing(controller)/output(view).
- taberiand 3y ago
  If you squint just a little more you'll notice a monad is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors.
- myaccountonhn 3y ago
  Software is just a giant ORM.
  - rtontic 3y ago
    It's all just one big state machine.
gepardi 3y ago
If I squint, Redux is like a controller. Handles requests and response. It calls the DB, gets a response, updates state, then a view (React component) renders it.

dfox 3y ago

Indeed, what the various “reactive” frameworks do is in the end the idea behind MVC, although as they are web-based the implementation is ridiculously complex and the abstraction is very leaky.

scrame 3y ago

the purest mvc demo is pong.

laurent123456 3y ago

In many ways it's really just MVC (at least the fat model / skinny controller style) except they renamed the elements: - Dispatcher = Controller - Store = Model - View = View And the actions are the messages sent from the user to the controller.

MrPatan 3y ago

It may be a matter of explaining it differently. Maybe just the names! But I never "got" MVC, and I got the one way data flow pattern straight away. Maybe I was just old enough to get the point that time around.

breadwinner 3y ago
MVC is one-way. Some people think MVC is two-way data binding. That's MVVC actually.
PlunderBunny 3y ago
I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't get MVC. I can sort of understand it if I study a real example for a long time, but to doesn't stick. Sometimes I want to think that learning to code in the days of 8-bit computers is somehow incompatible with a lot of modern programming concepts, but maybe I'm just old and tired.

tracker1 3y ago

I think flux/redux is generally cleaner imo. But have had a tendency to think of it that way. MVC usually feels like spaghetti in contrast. And while Redux/Flux takes some mental overhead, I see so many fewer side effects in UIs that use the approach.

DaiPlusPlus 3y ago

> MVC looks eerily similar to the one-way data flow pattern popularized by flux/redux. I'm not seeing it. From TFA: > Views: A visual representation of a model. Views are updated by querying the model directly, and are notified by the model of updates. A view can update it’s model directly. A view should never know about things like keyboard and mouse events directly. I'd like to emphasise the "a view can update its model directly" part - which is exactly what Redux and React are designed to prevent: when logic in a view can mutate the model (especially when the view _also_ depends on update notifications from the model to update itself) things get impossible to reason-about. Instead, Redux/React is designed to force the view to "update" the model indirectly via actions and reducers. Another tenet of Redux+React is that the model ("state" in Redux/React) is an immutable object-graph which is replaced on every update, whereas "classical" MVC requires a mutable, long-life'd model. I feel the similarities only exist if you squint - and if you're lumping TFA's idea of MVC with React (and MVVM (groan...)) as ideas in opposition to how most people wrote/write RAD/VB6/WinForms by directly subclassing controls and overriding message-pump event-handler methods, which (I hope) everyone will agree is an approach that doesn't scale beyond building throwaway UIs.

preommr 3y ago

If you squint almost of all software looks like MVC because it's essentially just, input(data)/processing(controller)/output(view).

taberiand 3y ago
If you squint just a little more you'll notice a monad is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors.
myaccountonhn 3y ago
Software is just a giant ORM.
- rtontic 3y ago
  It's all just one big state machine.

gepardi 3y ago

If I squint, Redux is like a controller. Handles requests and response. It calls the DB, gets a response, updates state, then a view (React component) renders it.