5 ms·

I would argue that phones are not general purpose computing devices either.

by l33t233372 3y ago

izacus 3y ago
And your argument would be bad.
- Shared404 3y ago
  To elaborate on this, I know many people who's only general purpose computing device is a phone. It's what they use for all their web browsing, email, communications, writing. All of it. These people don't care that you can't compile code on their phone. They just care that they can use it for their general purpose needs.
- Toutouxc 3y ago
  But why? I didn't buy an iPhone to be a general purpose computing device, I bought it to be an appliance that allows me to place calls, text my friends and take photos. Is there a magical force of nature that automatically transforms any device with a sufficiently powerful CPU into a general purpose device? Is there a FLOPS limit above which you're supposed to support general purpose tasks? Why is it that my washing machine is exempt from the rule but my cellphone isn't? I mean, I'm not even on anyone's side here, I don't really care that much if they allow sideloading in iOS (I could think of a few reasons to use it, but I probably won't), I run a headless Linux machine to tinker with, I can build a gaming rig, I can and do all kinds of general purpose computation but I just don't think of my iPhone as a computer and I'd like to understand how someone who does is objectively more correct than me.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    > Is there a magical force of nature that automatically transforms any device with a sufficiently powerful CPU into a general purpose device? It doesn't need to be "turned" into a general purpose device. It already is. That's its nature. It's Apple who turned it into an "appliance" by artificially limiting what programs you can run on it. It quite literally is a general purpose computer that can run any program except the ones Apple doesn't like. This is merely child's play, by the way. The future will no doubt feature governments wanting in on that action. Computers are subversive, after all. Encryption alone can make a mockery out of police and courts. They absolutely love the concept of a computer that runs only software that doesn't harm them.
    - l33t233372 3y ago
      > It doesn't need to be "turned" into a general purpose device. It already is. That's its nature I don’t understand what you’re saying. Apple didn’t find these devices in the wild and tame them. They created them.
      - matheusmoreira 3y ago
        They created a general purpose computer and then locked it down.
        l33t233372 3y ago
        Isn’t that how every locked down computer is created?
        matheusmoreira 3y ago
        Doesn't change the fact it's a computer that's inherently capable of any computation and they actively chose to artificially limit it mostly for rent seeking reasons. That will become evident when governments force Apple to undo those artificial locks. You'll see there was nothing really limiting its potential beside's Apple's locks.
        l33t233372 3y ago
        Of course there’s nothing inherent to it that makes it locked down. The microprocessor in my dishwasher could also run arbitrary code. That doesn’t mean locking it down is bad or wrong.
        josephcsible 3y ago
        Does your dishwasher go out of its way to keep you from reprogramming it?
        3y ago
- l33t233372 3y ago
  Why? What makes phones general purpose that wouldn’t apply to an xbox?
  - kyleee 3y ago
    Phones are many many people’s primary computing device these days (they have no laptop or desktop). And such a general computing device is increasingly required for various parts of life (school, interacting Witt various government agencies, business, all sorts of leisure uses (social media, etc) that are core to a person’s identity)
  - izacus 3y ago
    The fact that they're used for general purpose use-cases and the fact that they're hosting applications for a wide set of other businesses which are threatened by possible anti-competitive actions of platform holders. Xbox is a device that hosts video games and media services. A phone is hosting all those and hundreds of other use-cases, from banking and financial services, to hardware access via IoT interfaces, car integration and myriad of other applications.

I would argue that phones are not general purpose computing devices either.

izacus 3y ago

And your argument would be bad.

Shared404 3y ago
To elaborate on this, I know many people who's only general purpose computing device is a phone. It's what they use for all their web browsing, email, communications, writing. All of it. These people don't care that you can't compile code on their phone. They just care that they can use it for their general purpose needs.
Toutouxc 3y ago
But why? I didn't buy an iPhone to be a general purpose computing device, I bought it to be an appliance that allows me to place calls, text my friends and take photos. Is there a magical force of nature that automatically transforms any device with a sufficiently powerful CPU into a general purpose device? Is there a FLOPS limit above which you're supposed to support general purpose tasks? Why is it that my washing machine is exempt from the rule but my cellphone isn't? I mean, I'm not even on anyone's side here, I don't really care that much if they allow sideloading in iOS (I could think of a few reasons to use it, but I probably won't), I run a headless Linux machine to tinker with, I can build a gaming rig, I can and do all kinds of general purpose computation but I just don't think of my iPhone as a computer and I'd like to understand how someone who does is objectively more correct than me.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  > Is there a magical force of nature that automatically transforms any device with a sufficiently powerful CPU into a general purpose device? It doesn't need to be "turned" into a general purpose device. It already is. That's its nature. It's Apple who turned it into an "appliance" by artificially limiting what programs you can run on it. It quite literally is a general purpose computer that can run any program except the ones Apple doesn't like. This is merely child's play, by the way. The future will no doubt feature governments wanting in on that action. Computers are subversive, after all. Encryption alone can make a mockery out of police and courts. They absolutely love the concept of a computer that runs only software that doesn't harm them.
  - l33t233372 3y ago
    > It doesn't need to be "turned" into a general purpose device. It already is. That's its nature I don’t understand what you’re saying. Apple didn’t find these devices in the wild and tame them. They created them.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      They created a general purpose computer and then locked it down.
      - l33t233372 3y ago
        Isn’t that how every locked down computer is created?
        matheusmoreira 3y ago
        Doesn't change the fact it's a computer that's inherently capable of any computation and they actively chose to artificially limit it mostly for rent seeking reasons. That will become evident when governments force Apple to undo those artificial locks. You'll see there was nothing really limiting its potential beside's Apple's locks.
        l33t233372 3y ago
        Of course there’s nothing inherent to it that makes it locked down. The microprocessor in my dishwasher could also run arbitrary code. That doesn’t mean locking it down is bad or wrong.
        josephcsible 3y ago
        Does your dishwasher go out of its way to keep you from reprogramming it?
        3y ago
l33t233372 3y ago
Why? What makes phones general purpose that wouldn’t apply to an xbox?
- kyleee 3y ago
  Phones are many many people’s primary computing device these days (they have no laptop or desktop). And such a general computing device is increasingly required for various parts of life (school, interacting Witt various government agencies, business, all sorts of leisure uses (social media, etc) that are core to a person’s identity)
- izacus 3y ago
  The fact that they're used for general purpose use-cases and the fact that they're hosting applications for a wide set of other businesses which are threatened by possible anti-competitive actions of platform holders. Xbox is a device that hosts video games and media services. A phone is hosting all those and hundreds of other use-cases, from banking and financial services, to hardware access via IoT interfaces, car integration and myriad of other applications.