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> Why would developers want to make a game that isn't fun? I mean, why do people want to write buggy software? It's not on purpose, they're just not good enou

> Why would developers want to make a game that isn't fun? I mean, why do people want to write buggy software? It's not on purpose, they're just not good enough to deliver quality in a timely fashion. My experience with most indie games cannot deliver on a core gameplay loop that's satisfying, even when that loop is not the draw of the game in which case I'd expect them to ape something competent. IMO an example of a studio that doesn't mess this up is Giant Games. I've liked some titles more or less but the core gameplay loop has always been competently designed.

ZephyrBlu 3y ago
Right, so what does saying "[the game] needs to be fun" achieve? Absolutely nothing, because people who get it translate that into something useful like "make a satisfying core gameplay loop" and people who don't get it are still wondering what the hell "fun" means. I'm criticizing the shallowness and lack of information in the comment. Everyone knows games should be fun. Saying "[the game] needs to be fun" has literally 0 bits of information and is a lazy explanation for why games don't succeed.
- nathants 3y ago
  games are art, and art has a certain i don’t know what. art has to risk failure or it’s not art. perhaps has to even be near certain to fail. no one should be depending on art to feed their family. no one should be making art for any reason other than love. art must be beautiful. as many have pointed out, blockbuster movies and triple a games are interesting, but they are not art.
  - krapp 3y ago
    Art is work, friend. I don't know if you've ever encountered an actual artist in your life, beyond someone making macaroni collages, but professionals in any craft can't afford to do what they do for love alone. Certainly not in game development, the most brutal, toxic and exploitative industry a creative can work in. Even Michaelangelo didn't paint the Sistene Chapel ceiling for free.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
The big issue is that there is no consensus on "fun". You could make a "fun" platformer but you're not converting people who don't like paltformers (even if they make a few exceptions like Mario or Celeste. You're probably not making the next Mario, though). If the game is boring to that audience the solution shouldn't be to change genre. Not unless your goal is to attract a general audience. So "the game isn't fun" needs a lot more context on who is saying it, and is useless otherwise. Do they like your genre? Are they miscommunicating what sounds like a game design issue when it could be an art/sound issue? Did they just grab your game in a bundle/gamepass and weren't really in the mood to play your game? It's all speculation. And it's probably better to find better feedback than try to psycho-analyze every comment that way.

ZephyrBlu 3y ago

Right, so what does saying "[the game] needs to be fun" achieve? Absolutely nothing, because people who get it translate that into something useful like "make a satisfying core gameplay loop" and people who don't get it are still wondering what the hell "fun" means. I'm criticizing the shallowness and lack of information in the comment. Everyone knows games should be fun. Saying "[the game] needs to be fun" has literally 0 bits of information and is a lazy explanation for why games don't succeed.

nathants 3y ago
games are art, and art has a certain i don’t know what. art has to risk failure or it’s not art. perhaps has to even be near certain to fail. no one should be depending on art to feed their family. no one should be making art for any reason other than love. art must be beautiful. as many have pointed out, blockbuster movies and triple a games are interesting, but they are not art.
- krapp 3y ago
  Art is work, friend. I don't know if you've ever encountered an actual artist in your life, beyond someone making macaroni collages, but professionals in any craft can't afford to do what they do for love alone. Certainly not in game development, the most brutal, toxic and exploitative industry a creative can work in. Even Michaelangelo didn't paint the Sistene Chapel ceiling for free.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

The big issue is that there is no consensus on "fun". You could make a "fun" platformer but you're not converting people who don't like paltformers (even if they make a few exceptions like Mario or Celeste. You're probably not making the next Mario, though). If the game is boring to that audience the solution shouldn't be to change genre. Not unless your goal is to attract a general audience. So "the game isn't fun" needs a lot more context on who is saying it, and is useless otherwise. Do they like your genre? Are they miscommunicating what sounds like a game design issue when it could be an art/sound issue? Did they just grab your game in a bundle/gamepass and weren't really in the mood to play your game? It's all speculation. And it's probably better to find better feedback than try to psycho-analyze every comment that way.