7 ms·

Beehaw is a bit dramatic. I'm part of one of the most active lemmy instances, It only just brought in upstream lemmy as it forked 2 years ago when the community

Beehaw is a bit dramatic. I'm part of one of the most active lemmy instances, It only just brought in upstream lemmy as it forked 2 years ago when the community was created, because lemmy wasn't ready. Beehaw has some weird ideas about harassment and hate speech. Essentially civility and concern-troll like behavior cranked up to the extreme. The instance I'm on is a bit rowdy but has a tight culture and something like 600 average users online at once, 20kish accounts, and a very active banhammer to boot. We take things like transphobia, homophobia, racism, etc very seriously. The mods have zero patience for wreckers and "debate me" types. As a result, we find historical figures such as John Brown very admirable and hold strong opinions on what should happen to slaveholders and their ilk. Beehaw doesn't seem to like that.

ted_bunny 3y ago
Beehaw sound like the pseudo-socialist crybullies who wreck every Left space they're let into, in my experience.
- MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  bingobango
less_less 3y ago
Which instance is that, if you don't mind my asking?
- n6h6 3y ago
  I am also curious. The main reason I haven't even tried figuring Lemmy out is because I figured it'd be exclusively full of "free speech" people, like other Reddit alternatives.
  - Anon_Forever 3y ago
    Lemmy has/had the other extreme where it was full of "Gen Zedong" people.
    - MSFT_Edging 3y ago
      Lemmy was created by communists. Not quite shitposters like genZedong but committed communists nonetheless.
      - Anon_Forever 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - tracker1 3y ago
    I think there's room for both... I'm also pretty much okay with judicious use of individual block buttons, as well as add-ons that will allow shared/convention block lists. I generally lean towards a platform being open (source and speech), and letting individuals filter. Of course, that would leave opportunity for someone to create solutions. Site bans also happen to/from some systems. I also find that many people are way too quick to label, and will find myself tending towards that as well. In practice, I try to keep a conversation open and civil so long as personal insults aren't flying. I am human, however and will also close conversations if I reach a point where I, myself, am likely to slip. I feel it's a fair approach. I do miss when online communities were mostly local BBSes where you will meet, see and interact with locals that will have differing views from you. That doesn't mean there aren't toxic personalities, but only that a little bit of understanding can at least go a long way in terms of community and society. I feel that, in terms of politics at least, negotiation from opposing views is supposed to be part of what makes it worth. The general ill feelings towards anything that is "other" is disappointing.
  - MSFT_Edging 3y ago
    With a prior warning that a lot of people aren't big fans, and the instance hasn't formally federated yet, it's hexbear.net. Far left with specific rules against sectarian infighting, wrecking, etc. It's generally a really positive place, a lot of well read folks who can back up their views. Not pure shitposting a la genZedong. Not a fun place to go if you want a debate off the bat. It was originally a diaspora for /r/chapotraphouse after they were banned for "promoting violence" after basically saying "slave owners deserve to be killed", which like, yeah. It was banned at the same time as /r/the_donald which really felt like a "if we ban one extreme, gotta ban the other". If you ask me, the sins of the two weren't equal but we did a ton of brigading so we sorta deserved it anyway. Diaspora split between discord and hexbear. The latter has two daily megathreads that get more interaction than most lemmys see in a week. It will be federating soon, lemmygrad to start with and most likely some hobby and special interest lemmys soon.
    - less_less 3y ago
      Thanks for the info! It's not really my speed but it was interesting to read through the front page.
- MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  I gave a little writeup to the comment under you, if you're still interested.
jerf 3y ago
The thing to understand about this defederation drama is that the federated system don't create these stresses, they expose them in a visible manner. Reddit has all these problems too, as well as any other big site like Facebook, etc. The solution there is a one-size-fits-all policy that generally, surprise surprise, conforms whatever the dominant culture of the company that created it is. I mean, what else would it be, right? No sarcasm. Then further modulated by the commercial interests created by the advertising-funded nature of the large-scale community. And especially because of that, the desire is typically to just shovel any conflicts under the carpet. But these pressures are still there. They often seem to explode at some point. Reddit may or may not be seeing that now. This is why I remain unsure and unconvinced that these one-size-fits-all communities can function as communities for the long haul. There's this intrinsic build up of stresses that will eventually overwhelm the system. Clearly they can function for a decade or two, since they have, but can they go beyond that? Yeah, in Internet time that may seem like forever, but it really isn't all that long or stable on human time scales. You simply can not shovel the whole of humanity into one "community" and expect it to work.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Anon_Forever 3y ago
>As a result, we find historical figures such as John Brown very admirable and hold strong opinions on what should happen to slaveholders and their ilk. Beehaw doesn't seem to like that. What does this even mean in the context of a social media site?
- armchairhacker 3y ago
  > Group A: “We should punch Nazis, we actively encourage punching Nazis” > Beehaw: “Hey! You can’t advocate for violence towards people!” > Group A: “They’re Nazis, they deserve it” Something along those lines. In this case not exactly “punching Nazis”, but advocating something “should happen to slaveholders and their ilk”. For context, John Brown tried to organize a violent rebellion among black slaves in the South: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Anon_Forever 3y ago
    This sounds like it boils down to "everyone I dislike is a Nazi." The mirror image of this would be: > Group A: “We should punch commies, we actively encourage punching commies” > Beehaw: “Hey! You can’t advocate for violence towards people!” > Group A: “They’re commies, they deserve it” Something along those lines. In this case not exactly “punching commies”, but advocating something “should happen to commies and their ilk”. I know who John Brown is, but that history is completely immaterial to the topic at hand.

ted_bunny 3y ago

Beehaw sound like the pseudo-socialist crybullies who wreck every Left space they're let into, in my experience.

MSFT_Edging 3y ago
bingobango

less_less 3y ago

Which instance is that, if you don't mind my asking?

n6h6 3y ago
I am also curious. The main reason I haven't even tried figuring Lemmy out is because I figured it'd be exclusively full of "free speech" people, like other Reddit alternatives.
- Anon_Forever 3y ago
  Lemmy has/had the other extreme where it was full of "Gen Zedong" people.
  - MSFT_Edging 3y ago
    Lemmy was created by communists. Not quite shitposters like genZedong but committed communists nonetheless.
    - Anon_Forever 3y ago
      [flagged]
- tracker1 3y ago
  I think there's room for both... I'm also pretty much okay with judicious use of individual block buttons, as well as add-ons that will allow shared/convention block lists. I generally lean towards a platform being open (source and speech), and letting individuals filter. Of course, that would leave opportunity for someone to create solutions. Site bans also happen to/from some systems. I also find that many people are way too quick to label, and will find myself tending towards that as well. In practice, I try to keep a conversation open and civil so long as personal insults aren't flying. I am human, however and will also close conversations if I reach a point where I, myself, am likely to slip. I feel it's a fair approach. I do miss when online communities were mostly local BBSes where you will meet, see and interact with locals that will have differing views from you. That doesn't mean there aren't toxic personalities, but only that a little bit of understanding can at least go a long way in terms of community and society. I feel that, in terms of politics at least, negotiation from opposing views is supposed to be part of what makes it worth. The general ill feelings towards anything that is "other" is disappointing.
- MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  With a prior warning that a lot of people aren't big fans, and the instance hasn't formally federated yet, it's hexbear.net. Far left with specific rules against sectarian infighting, wrecking, etc. It's generally a really positive place, a lot of well read folks who can back up their views. Not pure shitposting a la genZedong. Not a fun place to go if you want a debate off the bat. It was originally a diaspora for /r/chapotraphouse after they were banned for "promoting violence" after basically saying "slave owners deserve to be killed", which like, yeah. It was banned at the same time as /r/the_donald which really felt like a "if we ban one extreme, gotta ban the other". If you ask me, the sins of the two weren't equal but we did a ton of brigading so we sorta deserved it anyway. Diaspora split between discord and hexbear. The latter has two daily megathreads that get more interaction than most lemmys see in a week. It will be federating soon, lemmygrad to start with and most likely some hobby and special interest lemmys soon.
  - less_less 3y ago
    Thanks for the info! It's not really my speed but it was interesting to read through the front page.
MSFT_Edging 3y ago
I gave a little writeup to the comment under you, if you're still interested.

jerf 3y ago

The thing to understand about this defederation drama is that the federated system don't create these stresses, they expose them in a visible manner. Reddit has all these problems too, as well as any other big site like Facebook, etc. The solution there is a one-size-fits-all policy that generally, surprise surprise, conforms whatever the dominant culture of the company that created it is. I mean, what else would it be, right? No sarcasm. Then further modulated by the commercial interests created by the advertising-funded nature of the large-scale community. And especially because of that, the desire is typically to just shovel any conflicts under the carpet. But these pressures are still there. They often seem to explode at some point. Reddit may or may not be seeing that now. This is why I remain unsure and unconvinced that these one-size-fits-all communities can function as communities for the long haul. There's this intrinsic build up of stresses that will eventually overwhelm the system. Clearly they can function for a decade or two, since they have, but can they go beyond that? Yeah, in Internet time that may seem like forever, but it really isn't all that long or stable on human time scales. You simply can not shovel the whole of humanity into one "community" and expect it to work.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Anon_Forever 3y ago

>As a result, we find historical figures such as John Brown very admirable and hold strong opinions on what should happen to slaveholders and their ilk. Beehaw doesn't seem to like that. What does this even mean in the context of a social media site?

armchairhacker 3y ago
> Group A: “We should punch Nazis, we actively encourage punching Nazis” > Beehaw: “Hey! You can’t advocate for violence towards people!” > Group A: “They’re Nazis, they deserve it” Something along those lines. In this case not exactly “punching Nazis”, but advocating something “should happen to slaveholders and their ilk”. For context, John Brown tried to organize a violent rebellion among black slaves in the South: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Anon_Forever 3y ago
  This sounds like it boils down to "everyone I dislike is a Nazi." The mirror image of this would be: > Group A: “We should punch commies, we actively encourage punching commies” > Beehaw: “Hey! You can’t advocate for violence towards people!” > Group A: “They’re commies, they deserve it” Something along those lines. In this case not exactly “punching commies”, but advocating something “should happen to commies and their ilk”. I know who John Brown is, but that history is completely immaterial to the topic at hand.