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Hmm ... there's this famous study that examined a whole lot of motorcycle crashes and if I recall correctly, the vast majority of injuries & death were due to:

by stef25 3y ago

Hmm ... there's this famous study that examined a whole lot of motorcycle crashes and if I recall correctly, the vast majority of injuries & death were due to: lack of experience, being close to home (when you just set off or about to arrive at your destination your guard just isn't up yet / anymore), being under the influence, excessive speed etc. When you filter all these elements out (you're a rider with experience who "knows" the traffic and doesn't do stupid) then it's safer then you'd think. After so many years of riding a bike in the city I feel like I just have a sixth sense about how cars are going to behave. It can be really small things. For example a car with plates from out of town approaching a crossroads driving a little too slow is probably wondering where the hell he should turn and is likely to suddenly change course, so keep your distance. And if you look several cars ahead you can predict what the car in front of you is likely to do.

bombcar 3y ago
It’s not an exact science in either case - the NTSB attributes crashes to the pilot for things like “flew into clouds as a visual pilot” even if the proximate cause of death was controlled flight into terrain. The kicker for me is you can do everything perfectly correctly and a drunk driver sideswipes you and you’re just a list of organs available. It wasn’t for me; I’m not saying it’s not for others. But if you do want to ride, take those defensive motorcycle courses and, like a pilot, be willing to say “today is not my day to ride” and don’t mix alcohol (the eight hour bottle to throttle is a good rule for any piece of heavy machinery).
- stef25 3y ago
  > It wasn’t for me; I’m not saying it’s not for others. It was for me for a while until I got the fear after a near crash, became a father and ... it's not really worth it anymore. Still get dark thoughts about all the close calls I had and stupid shit I did (riding 6K km through Africa with fork oil dripping all over my front break disk). Problem is as soon as I get on the bike I become fearless again. > The kicker for me is you can do everything perfectly correctly and a drunk driver sideswipes you and you’re just a list of organs available. Yeah that's the old "you have to get it right all the time, they only need to get it right once"
bityard 3y ago
They say that there are two kinds of motorcyclists: those who have had a crash and those who will. I've been riding for 10 years now and haven't had mine yet, thankfully. But I get unreasonably annoyed when people who don't ride, or are very new to riding, parrot statistics about rider injury and mortality rates compared to cars and essentially wag their finger in smug disapproval. The reality is that the "dangerousness" of motorcycling is nuanced. You are not simply X times more likely to die on a motorcycle than in a car, there are a whole host of factors involved, like: Did you take a safety class? Do you look for opportunities to improve your safety? Is your bike well-maintained? Did you inspect it before riding? Are you completely sober and awake? Are you stressed or worried about something? Are you wearing your helmet and gear? Is your gear reflective and/or bright? Do you typically ride along in your own little world or are you constantly scanning your environment for danger? Around here, the two most common kinds of riders are pirates (on Harleys) and squids (on sport bikes) tend not to worry about trivial details such as these and both groups represent motorcycling quite poorly in the safety department. They generally don't wear helmets (or any riding gear at all), tend to have obnoxiously loud exhausts (which don't save lives), and are attracted to motorcycles as a means to achieve a certain kind of personal image and/or to fit in with their desired peer group. There is a third, smaller group that believes you don't have to sacrifice much fun in order to get quite a lot of (relative) safety. I like to think I am part of this group. I would love to see some research comparing motorcycle-related injury rates, taking into account more factors than just, "was the vehicle a motorcycle or not?" I suspect that a safety-conscious rider is not THAT much more at risk than the average car driver. (Accounting of course for the fact that riders are not surrounded by a strong steel cage.)
- bombcar 3y ago
  That last parenthetical does a lot of heavy lifting; most cagers (if they're honest) have a few near misses in the last year that could have been entirely deadly if they had been on a motorbike. Mine was slipping on ice during a turn and bouncing off the center median. I suspect that your third group becomes better drivers in all vehicles because they learn more things to pay attention to, which permeates everything you do.
renewiltord 3y ago
Everyone always just-worlds the Universe. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUHfiS7X0AAe-XD.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUHfiS7X0AAe-XD.jpg Common in SF as the anti-theft rock. You keep it hidden in your car to prevent the car from being broken into. Works really well.

by stef25 3y ago

bombcar 3y ago

It’s not an exact science in either case - the NTSB attributes crashes to the pilot for things like “flew into clouds as a visual pilot” even if the proximate cause of death was controlled flight into terrain. The kicker for me is you can do everything perfectly correctly and a drunk driver sideswipes you and you’re just a list of organs available. It wasn’t for me; I’m not saying it’s not for others. But if you do want to ride, take those defensive motorcycle courses and, like a pilot, be willing to say “today is not my day to ride” and don’t mix alcohol (the eight hour bottle to throttle is a good rule for any piece of heavy machinery).

stef25 3y ago
> It wasn’t for me; I’m not saying it’s not for others. It was for me for a while until I got the fear after a near crash, became a father and ... it's not really worth it anymore. Still get dark thoughts about all the close calls I had and stupid shit I did (riding 6K km through Africa with fork oil dripping all over my front break disk). Problem is as soon as I get on the bike I become fearless again. > The kicker for me is you can do everything perfectly correctly and a drunk driver sideswipes you and you’re just a list of organs available. Yeah that's the old "you have to get it right all the time, they only need to get it right once"

bityard 3y ago

They say that there are two kinds of motorcyclists: those who have had a crash and those who will. I've been riding for 10 years now and haven't had mine yet, thankfully. But I get unreasonably annoyed when people who don't ride, or are very new to riding, parrot statistics about rider injury and mortality rates compared to cars and essentially wag their finger in smug disapproval. The reality is that the "dangerousness" of motorcycling is nuanced. You are not simply X times more likely to die on a motorcycle than in a car, there are a whole host of factors involved, like: Did you take a safety class? Do you look for opportunities to improve your safety? Is your bike well-maintained? Did you inspect it before riding? Are you completely sober and awake? Are you stressed or worried about something? Are you wearing your helmet and gear? Is your gear reflective and/or bright? Do you typically ride along in your own little world or are you constantly scanning your environment for danger? Around here, the two most common kinds of riders are pirates (on Harleys) and squids (on sport bikes) tend not to worry about trivial details such as these and both groups represent motorcycling quite poorly in the safety department. They generally don't wear helmets (or any riding gear at all), tend to have obnoxiously loud exhausts (which don't save lives), and are attracted to motorcycles as a means to achieve a certain kind of personal image and/or to fit in with their desired peer group. There is a third, smaller group that believes you don't have to sacrifice much fun in order to get quite a lot of (relative) safety. I like to think I am part of this group. I would love to see some research comparing motorcycle-related injury rates, taking into account more factors than just, "was the vehicle a motorcycle or not?" I suspect that a safety-conscious rider is not THAT much more at risk than the average car driver. (Accounting of course for the fact that riders are not surrounded by a strong steel cage.)

bombcar 3y ago
That last parenthetical does a lot of heavy lifting; most cagers (if they're honest) have a few near misses in the last year that could have been entirely deadly if they had been on a motorbike. Mine was slipping on ice during a turn and bouncing off the center median. I suspect that your third group becomes better drivers in all vehicles because they learn more things to pay attention to, which permeates everything you do.

renewiltord 3y ago

Everyone always just-worlds the Universe. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUHfiS7X0AAe-XD.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUHfiS7X0AAe-XD.jpg Common in SF as the anti-theft rock. You keep it hidden in your car to prevent the car from being broken into. Works really well.