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Something I figured out after riding a 650 through town for a few years is "assume you're invisible, and nothing else". That driver hasn't seen you, the road wo

• gregoriol 3y ago
  You are right! This video should be shown at driving schools to remind everyone that shit can happen at _any_ time and hit _hard_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOosn78WsMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOosn78WsMg
  • GLGirty 3y ago
    I checked the source and confirmed no one in the car was seriously hurt. So I will say it: The way the tire shows up again after the mega damage: just slowly rolling up into the accident; was a pretty good comic beat.
• euroderf 3y ago
  > Brake with a wheel on a piece of cardboard and chances are you'll just slide. Same for an oil slick. Also autumn leaves. Like sheets of graphene. It's worth remembering that a car will always brake faster and turn more sharply than a motorbike. It's also worth remembering that after every rain, the road is slick for a half hour or so while all the oily crap and rubbery crap washes off.
  • i_am_proteus 3y ago
    Cars always brake faster, except when the car is behind you, in which case it will brake slower than you in a straight line (and you'll get rear-ended if you stop too quickly). If I ever need to stop very quickly, I try to end up in the "lane split" position, stopped in between two stopped vehicles. This has saved me from some nasty rear-end collisions a few times.
    • stef25 3y ago
      That's a ninja move my mom once did - cars rear ending each other in front, doing an emergency swerve in to the next lane and the guy who was behind her slamming in to the ones who were in front. That was in car. It's very difficult to suddenly swerve at speed on a motorbike.
      • davisoneee 3y ago
        It's very _easy_ to swerve at speed on a motorbike. In fact, it's part of the UK's motorbike license test ('hazard avoidance'). You are required to go through a speed trap at 50km/h+ and swerve approx 1m out of your riding line and come to a controlled stop. I did the swerve at 63km/h. All it takes to swerve at speed is a small shove on the appropriate side of the handlebar, and 1m should be enough to put you either into the 'lane split' or into the other lane entirely.
      • GoldenRacer 3y ago
        I'd be way more hesitant to recommend that move in a car. With a motorcycle splitting lanes, there's a low chance anyone will be between lanes and if there is someone there, it's the motorcyclist that will likely suffer the consequences so they'll have a high level of awareness. On top of that, being squished between two cars is a much riskier place to be for a motorcyclist then a car. I say this because I had a friend who was killed when another driver swerved into her lane while trying to avoid rear ending another car. In that case, rear ending the other car would've been way safer. So yeah, just be absolutely certain the lane you're swerving into is clear. That should go without say but apparently it didn't for the woman that killed my friend (and I bet she thought she was pulling off a ninja move until it was too late).
  • throw0101a 3y ago
    > Also autumn leaves. Like sheets of graphene. Zebra pedestrian crossings as well after it has rained: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_crossing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_crossing Wet road paint can be slippery AF (also applies to bicyclists).
    • SoapSeller 3y ago
      It's because of bad paint. Some places use cheap, generic paint and some will use the one with proper grip. You can sometimes tell in advance by the texture. It's a gamble I personally wouldn't take.
    • ce4 3y ago
      Not sure why this was downvoted, i really agree with that. And patched cracks (using bitumen with a lower melting point than asphalt's) are also slippery af in the summer heat. I keep doing some controlled slips to stay somewhat accustomed to the gut feeling which prevents driving errors when a minor slip happens (like going over man hole cover when leaning, or having a slight/controlled slip on mended cracks in a corner).
      • djsavvy 3y ago
        How are you practicing your controlled slips?
        • ce4 3y ago
          Only when I'm in the mood. There's a bit of a lower than street/asphalt-level manhole cover in a calm corner here. I just go over this one with a bit of an angle, started very gentle and increased speed/leaning angle a bit over time. Not for race bikes, though. Then, when I see long-drawn-out mended cracksin a corner when its hot, sometimes I try to induce a slip on those. Takes some courage though, but the slip wont be as bad, because the patches are only one to two centimeters wide (the cracks are parallel to the road). I ride a light dualsports bike, a KTM 790 Adventure. It has spoke wheels and takes the abuse without an issue. And it also has all the electronic features (6-axle IMU, traction control, etc). It's just that my bum knows how a slip feels and to prevent a bad reaction in case an (semi scary) involuntary one happens. That has served me well so far, saved me from reacting badly when I was surprised in a shady & moist corner and so on. Edit: added more text to clarify + typos corrected
  • bayindirh 3y ago
    > It's also worth remembering that after every rain, the road is slick for a half hour or so while all the oily crap and rubbery crap washes off. Advice from my dad (who's an ex rally driver) is "if you can see tires leaving tracks in the rain, it's not safe". Also, black ice is something.
    • yencabulator 3y ago
      Finland has a running joke about "black ice surprised drivers this morning" as an annual news headline that really shouldn't surprise anyone anymore.
      • klyrs 3y ago
        I'm in Canada. There are teenagers and immigrants from warmer climes encountering black ice for the first time every year.
        • yencabulator 3y ago
          Last I checked, training for slippery conditions was part of the mandatory driver education for getting a license in Finland, so "new driver" is a relatively poor excuse for that over there. (The annual rear-ending fest seems to mostly cater to the "I've driven this route to work for years" audience.)
          • klyrs 3y ago
            Indeed, there are certainly more accidents than new drivers. Likewise, in the pacific northwest, first rain after summer is a perpetual learning experience. But you've got me curious: do drivers experience slippery conditions before they get their license or are they merely lectured about them?
            • yencabulator 3y ago
              Yes. "Hazard recognition" is a separate 8-hour block of education that includes slippery conditions and darkness, and is done "on the track", not in a classroom. As far as I know e.g. the moose evasion maneuver is still part of that, and you'll be in a tailspin at least a couple of times during that day. Before you get to that, you'll have completed minimum 4 h classroom safety training, 10 h driving with instructor, and whatever amount of theory training gets you to pass the theory test (generally two calendar months studying on the side of being in high school). Slippery conditions aren't really hard to find in Finland. I think the black ice phenomena is really more about distracted driving.
• BiteCode_dev 3y ago
  Same conclusions. And children, dogs, birds, metal plaques... So many things out of your control, so just assume the worst, all the time if you want to survive. Motorbikes are just dangerous, that's it. Another thing I'd add: say no to ridding under the rain. Don't buy a better suit, better tires, adapt your schedule and run slowly. Just don't use it. There is nothing in the world you can do that will make it much safer. It's a death trap. Bite the bullet, and use something else. But who am I kidding, young me would have read that comment, say "mehhh", and just ride the storm anyway :)
  • FoomFries 3y ago
    The friction coefficients in rain aren’t bad if you’re riding at posted speeds, outside of solid metal and painted lines. It’s riding right after it starts raining that you want to avoid - all of the oils which drip from vehicles get displaced by the initial deluge, and that is slippery stuff.
    • BiteCode_dev 3y ago
      First, that's a lot of if, second, that's not nearly all the if, and finally, there are a lot of if about things that are not you.
  • stef25 3y ago
    Wind can also be a nightmare. When riding on a highway in Spain, south of Barcelona I was sure I was going to die cause the wind just blew me all over the place.
  • xtiansimon 3y ago
    > “…say no to ridding under the rain.” I use my moto for Moto camping upstate New York. I plan my trips to avoid storms, but they happen never the less. And I love my super banana suit. It keeps me comfortable while I’m trying to hold my $#!t together out on the highway. I grew up in CA and every year people go nuts with the first rains. Lots of accidents. Same happens here—especially the spring and early summer rains. People lose their minds and forget how to drive. Slow down. Increase following distance. And if you’re on a moto, watch for manhole covers, leaves, road markings which can be slick. And not running your tires to slick helps, too.
• bombcar 3y ago
  I recall when deciding to get a private pilot license or a motorcycle that something like 50-60% of motorcycle deaths were not the cyclist's fault. But that only 10% of the pilots were blameless. If you're on a motorcycle you have to treat everyone and everything as out to get you, because they are.
  • stef25 3y ago
    Hmm ... there's this famous study that examined a whole lot of motorcycle crashes and if I recall correctly, the vast majority of injuries & death were due to: lack of experience, being close to home (when you just set off or about to arrive at your destination your guard just isn't up yet / anymore), being under the influence, excessive speed etc. When you filter all these elements out (you're a rider with experience who "knows" the traffic and doesn't do stupid) then it's safer then you'd think. After so many years of riding a bike in the city I feel like I just have a sixth sense about how cars are going to behave. It can be really small things. For example a car with plates from out of town approaching a crossroads driving a little too slow is probably wondering where the hell he should turn and is likely to suddenly change course, so keep your distance. And if you look several cars ahead you can predict what the car in front of you is likely to do.
    • bombcar 3y ago
      It’s not an exact science in either case - the NTSB attributes crashes to the pilot for things like “flew into clouds as a visual pilot” even if the proximate cause of death was controlled flight into terrain. The kicker for me is you can do everything perfectly correctly and a drunk driver sideswipes you and you’re just a list of organs available. It wasn’t for me; I’m not saying it’s not for others. But if you do want to ride, take those defensive motorcycle courses and, like a pilot, be willing to say “today is not my day to ride” and don’t mix alcohol (the eight hour bottle to throttle is a good rule for any piece of heavy machinery).
      • stef25 3y ago
        > It wasn’t for me; I’m not saying it’s not for others. It was for me for a while until I got the fear after a near crash, became a father and ... it's not really worth it anymore. Still get dark thoughts about all the close calls I had and stupid shit I did (riding 6K km through Africa with fork oil dripping all over my front break disk). Problem is as soon as I get on the bike I become fearless again. > The kicker for me is you can do everything perfectly correctly and a drunk driver sideswipes you and you’re just a list of organs available. Yeah that's the old "you have to get it right all the time, they only need to get it right once"
• throwaway426079 3y ago
  "The number of times I've shit flying out of or off of cars & trucks" I'll take that very seriously in my car too - and back off if I see a badly loaded vehicle. There's not much protection from a windshield.
  • Ntrails 3y ago
    I remember following a small towed trailer with some old bins on a motorbike. A pretty normal round bin lid blew off and veered to the side - nowhere near me. I had time to register it happening but not sure I had time to move much - and I'm pretty sure it could've wiped me out. I paid a bit more attention to loads after that - but I suspect the lesson slowly faded.
• LispSporks22 3y ago
  > seen shit flying out of or off of cars & trucks “Road furniture” as they call it in MSF
• tyingq 3y ago
  > Same for an oil slick I've had trouble a couple of times, at a full stop, just balancing the bike when there's a bit of oil with fresh rain.