4 ms·

Because it's easy, free and it just works. Very few people actually care about indexing the conversations.

by cinntaile 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pmontra 3y ago
So all knowledge is lost and questions have to be asked and answered again and again?
- numpad0 3y ago
  No, questions don't have to be asked and answered again and again, because all the knowledge is lost, full stop. No one would know anything.
- michaelt 3y ago
  That didn't stop IRC being popular in the 1990s. There has long been a place in the ecosystem for ephemeral chat. Often alongside non-ephemeral things like written documentation.
  - nixass 3y ago
    Also monks being the only ones who can read and write didn't stop religion to be popular in middle ages. /s C'mon
  - darkwater 3y ago
    > That didn't stop IRC being popular in the 1990s. IRC chats, especially in opensource projects channels, could and would be archived, published over the web and indexed by search engines.
    - paxys 3y ago
      So just like Discord then..
      - scubbo 3y ago
        No
      - pbmonster 3y ago
        I wasn't aware that was being done. Can you show me how to access the archives of the ask-for-help channel on the openllm Discord server? Right now they're discussing "loading models on CPU vs GPU". No matter how explicit I got, google did not find the discussion.
        paxys 3y ago
        It's up to the server owners/admins to configure archiving, same as IRC.
    - MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
      In my experience, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an IRC log in a search result. #haskell on Libra is publicly logged, but I couldn’t get Google to return a quoted phrase from a message a few weeks ago. Many people on IRC don’t enjoy being in logged channels. I’ve also heard that there are GDPR implications to publicly logging people’s messages without their consent. Discussion of the difficulty and downsides of IRC logging, from a coulple years ago: => https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22892015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22892015 => https://web.archive.org/web/20200417001532/https://echelog.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200417001532/https://echelog.c... The HN blowback to developers choosing to use Discord is just wildly out of proportion.
      - darkwater 3y ago
        No, it's not. If you work on an opensource / open development project, it totally makes sense to avoid walled gardens for the community chat/forum (a few years ago it was public Slack instance, nowadays it's Discord servers).
  - sp332 3y ago
    People didn't put documentation in IRC channels because they didn't want to answer the same questions over and over. Info went into a wiki, and you would get flamed for asking a question on IRC that was answered on the wiki. Discord is not a good place to stash documentation.
    - yrro 3y ago
      It's ok you get scolded for asking an FAQ in many Discord "servers" as well.
- mirekrusin 3y ago
  Maybe it doesn't matter because this type of knowledge is relevant for current week only?
- falcor84 3y ago
  Isn't there something really nice about it though? It seems to me that most every community gradually evolves into one where every new message from a new-ish member is answered by something like "Duplicate, please search first!". And this in turn makes those newcomers either go away, become passive lurkers, or become part of the "hive-mind" (as only likeminded questions get answered). On the other hand, if people have to actually converse to get an answer to their questions (like back in the real world), newcomers can more rapidly become part of the community, and help make it more diverse.
  - Zak 3y ago
    I just recently saw a post where someone said something similar about Reddit versus traditional forums. There's a balance between engaging with new members and not turning it into a time sink for older members. This is probably a good use case for LLMs.
    - falcor84 3y ago
      LLMs could indeed address the first part, but not the second, of bringing the newcomers in via actual conversation with the older members. The only good solution I encountered to this is of having some (preferably not too experienced) member(s) actively take upon themselves the role of welcoming newcomers and answering their questions, whether that's in an official or unofficial capacity. This to me is the real way through this "Eternal September", where in every "cohort" of newcomers, one or more choose to stay close to the doorway to welcome and guide the next cohort.
      - windyfly 3y ago
        Newcomers are also different. Some are actually experienced vs some are real newbies. I’m wondering how could learn from games, making the content also adaptive to user levels/experiences. It’s prob also the key agenda in education.
  - scubbo 3y ago
    The best of both worlds - a friendly community that welcomes newbies, with a searchable archive - is possible. Limiting to only chat-based support means that support is bottle-necked by the folks who are available and engaged at the time of the question, and that knowledge will "drop out" of the community as people forget it.
- bredren 3y ago
  Not lost enough to use as a transient space for sharing secret intelligence reports.
ekianjo 3y ago
indexing conversations is secondary for gaming but primary for FOSS projects and Discord sucks at that. its like wiping your ass with a fork.

Because it's easy, free and it just works. Very few people actually care about indexing the conversations.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

pmontra 3y ago

So all knowledge is lost and questions have to be asked and answered again and again?

numpad0 3y ago
No, questions don't have to be asked and answered again and again, because all the knowledge is lost, full stop. No one would know anything.
michaelt 3y ago
That didn't stop IRC being popular in the 1990s. There has long been a place in the ecosystem for ephemeral chat. Often alongside non-ephemeral things like written documentation.
- nixass 3y ago
  Also monks being the only ones who can read and write didn't stop religion to be popular in middle ages. /s C'mon
- darkwater 3y ago
  > That didn't stop IRC being popular in the 1990s. IRC chats, especially in opensource projects channels, could and would be archived, published over the web and indexed by search engines.
  - paxys 3y ago
    So just like Discord then..
    - scubbo 3y ago
      No
    - pbmonster 3y ago
      I wasn't aware that was being done. Can you show me how to access the archives of the ask-for-help channel on the openllm Discord server? Right now they're discussing "loading models on CPU vs GPU". No matter how explicit I got, google did not find the discussion.
      - paxys 3y ago
        It's up to the server owners/admins to configure archiving, same as IRC.
  - MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
    In my experience, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an IRC log in a search result. #haskell on Libra is publicly logged, but I couldn’t get Google to return a quoted phrase from a message a few weeks ago. Many people on IRC don’t enjoy being in logged channels. I’ve also heard that there are GDPR implications to publicly logging people’s messages without their consent. Discussion of the difficulty and downsides of IRC logging, from a coulple years ago: => https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22892015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22892015 => https://web.archive.org/web/20200417001532/https://echelog.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200417001532/https://echelog.c... The HN blowback to developers choosing to use Discord is just wildly out of proportion.
    - darkwater 3y ago
      No, it's not. If you work on an opensource / open development project, it totally makes sense to avoid walled gardens for the community chat/forum (a few years ago it was public Slack instance, nowadays it's Discord servers).
- sp332 3y ago
  People didn't put documentation in IRC channels because they didn't want to answer the same questions over and over. Info went into a wiki, and you would get flamed for asking a question on IRC that was answered on the wiki. Discord is not a good place to stash documentation.
  - yrro 3y ago
    It's ok you get scolded for asking an FAQ in many Discord "servers" as well.
mirekrusin 3y ago
Maybe it doesn't matter because this type of knowledge is relevant for current week only?
falcor84 3y ago
Isn't there something really nice about it though? It seems to me that most every community gradually evolves into one where every new message from a new-ish member is answered by something like "Duplicate, please search first!". And this in turn makes those newcomers either go away, become passive lurkers, or become part of the "hive-mind" (as only likeminded questions get answered). On the other hand, if people have to actually converse to get an answer to their questions (like back in the real world), newcomers can more rapidly become part of the community, and help make it more diverse.
- Zak 3y ago
  I just recently saw a post where someone said something similar about Reddit versus traditional forums. There's a balance between engaging with new members and not turning it into a time sink for older members. This is probably a good use case for LLMs.
  - falcor84 3y ago
    LLMs could indeed address the first part, but not the second, of bringing the newcomers in via actual conversation with the older members. The only good solution I encountered to this is of having some (preferably not too experienced) member(s) actively take upon themselves the role of welcoming newcomers and answering their questions, whether that's in an official or unofficial capacity. This to me is the real way through this "Eternal September", where in every "cohort" of newcomers, one or more choose to stay close to the doorway to welcome and guide the next cohort.
    - windyfly 3y ago
      Newcomers are also different. Some are actually experienced vs some are real newbies. I’m wondering how could learn from games, making the content also adaptive to user levels/experiences. It’s prob also the key agenda in education.
- scubbo 3y ago
  The best of both worlds - a friendly community that welcomes newbies, with a searchable archive - is possible. Limiting to only chat-based support means that support is bottle-necked by the folks who are available and engaged at the time of the question, and that knowledge will "drop out" of the community as people forget it.
bredren 3y ago
Not lost enough to use as a transient space for sharing secret intelligence reports.

ekianjo 3y ago

indexing conversations is secondary for gaming but primary for FOSS projects and Discord sucks at that. its like wiping your ass with a fork.