3 ms·

> But there are enough differences where the logic of the language, when used by Hindi speakers, changes enough that in order to understand the meaning of any g

> But there are enough differences where the logic of the language, when used by Hindi speakers, changes enough that in order to understand the meaning of any given phrase one often needs to know both Hindi and English, even if all the words used are English I speak both German and Turkish fluently and for the most cases, I "understand only the train station" ("nur Bahnhof verstehen" means that you understand nothing) when Germans of Turkish origin communicate with each other in German-Turkish, and it's been 14 years since I came here, so I have no hope of ever understanding it. Those languages tend to evolve apart from both of the origins towards asymmetric intelligibility. > I understand the impetus but linguists for whatever reason are oftentimes politically motivated in this sort of social-justic-y, milquetoast liberal progressive way that stretches the limits of what can and should be rigorously defined as a dialect. Well that escalated quickly. People defining dialects because of their political agenda? Anything touches, regardless of positivity, to minorities and people shout SJW!

Ensorceled 3y ago
> Well that escalated quickly. People defining dialects because of their political agenda? Anything touches, regardless of positivity, to minorities and people shout SJW! This has been going on for a while: "I disagree with an recognized expert (linguists) on a fundamental concept (definition of dialect) based on my rather singular experience (or youtube research) so those experts must be 'woke' and I will now become enraged!" It must be exhausting.
- DiscourseFan 3y ago
  >This has been going on for a while: "I disagree with an recognized expert (linguists) on a fundamental concept (definition of dialect) based on my rather singular experience (or youtube research) so those experts must be 'woke' and I will now become enraged!" This is worse than Scientism. I'm not going to lay out my credentials for you, I'll just say that most "woke" shit dovetails heavily with far-right ethnonationalism, which I elucidated elsewhere (since you might not know that most cuban-americans are politically aligned with the far-right), and I have no patience for white-liberals, or liberals in general, who go around whining about identity politics without any real social critique.
inkyoto 3y ago
> People defining dialects because of their political agenda? That is absolutely the case with mainland China where the CCP has weaponised the dialects rhetoric and declared all other Chinese languages that are not Mandarin as mere, lowly dialects despite then being closely related, yet different languages and comprising a larger Chinese language continuum. They have their own respective grammatical and, naturally, lexicon differences. Such an attitude is also partially rooted in the history of the development of linguistics in ancient China where it was not recognised as such until the encounter with the linguistic studies in neighbouring ancient India as part of the inevitable cultural exchange, but the western style development of linguistics was always stifled in ancient China due to the «celestial kingdom» concept (i.e. no need to learn barbarian tongues). Predominantly Mandarin speaking young generation (mostly from the north) get a surprise or a few when they 1) come across another Chinese language in writing (officially, it is not meant to exist), 2) realise that the grammar of another Chinese language is incomprehensible to them. It becomes an eye opener to them. The reality is a bit different, as almost everything in the mainland, and most children are bi- or trilingual if they happen to have been born into a family where parents speak at least one other Chinese language. In between peers, they speak their own language reverting to Mandarin when speaking to a person not native to their region. The Taiwanese have eventually got it right, and officially recognise Hokkien as a distinct language and now teach it in school as well as fund the Hokkien studies. Hong Kong and Cantonese are somewhat a grey area at the moment, although Cantonese itself is thriving nevertheless.
DiscourseFan 3y ago
>Anything touches, regardless of positivity, to minorities and people shout SJW! Well, Cuban-Americans are mostly white and they tend to be members of the far-right, so, it makes sense that a bunch of white liberal social-justice types would support them since the only metric they care about is "diversity." Not to mention, of course, that there is no such thing as a "cuban" ethnicity, Cuba is as ethnically diverse as the United States, probably moreso, its just that the majority of those who fled were the rich white population, which naturally supported anti-communist policies when they came to the US.

Ensorceled 3y ago

> Well that escalated quickly. People defining dialects because of their political agenda? Anything touches, regardless of positivity, to minorities and people shout SJW! This has been going on for a while: "I disagree with an recognized expert (linguists) on a fundamental concept (definition of dialect) based on my rather singular experience (or youtube research) so those experts must be 'woke' and I will now become enraged!" It must be exhausting.

DiscourseFan 3y ago
>This has been going on for a while: "I disagree with an recognized expert (linguists) on a fundamental concept (definition of dialect) based on my rather singular experience (or youtube research) so those experts must be 'woke' and I will now become enraged!" This is worse than Scientism. I'm not going to lay out my credentials for you, I'll just say that most "woke" shit dovetails heavily with far-right ethnonationalism, which I elucidated elsewhere (since you might not know that most cuban-americans are politically aligned with the far-right), and I have no patience for white-liberals, or liberals in general, who go around whining about identity politics without any real social critique.

inkyoto 3y ago

> People defining dialects because of their political agenda? That is absolutely the case with mainland China where the CCP has weaponised the dialects rhetoric and declared all other Chinese languages that are not Mandarin as mere, lowly dialects despite then being closely related, yet different languages and comprising a larger Chinese language continuum. They have their own respective grammatical and, naturally, lexicon differences. Such an attitude is also partially rooted in the history of the development of linguistics in ancient China where it was not recognised as such until the encounter with the linguistic studies in neighbouring ancient India as part of the inevitable cultural exchange, but the western style development of linguistics was always stifled in ancient China due to the «celestial kingdom» concept (i.e. no need to learn barbarian tongues). Predominantly Mandarin speaking young generation (mostly from the north) get a surprise or a few when they 1) come across another Chinese language in writing (officially, it is not meant to exist), 2) realise that the grammar of another Chinese language is incomprehensible to them. It becomes an eye opener to them. The reality is a bit different, as almost everything in the mainland, and most children are bi- or trilingual if they happen to have been born into a family where parents speak at least one other Chinese language. In between peers, they speak their own language reverting to Mandarin when speaking to a person not native to their region. The Taiwanese have eventually got it right, and officially recognise Hokkien as a distinct language and now teach it in school as well as fund the Hokkien studies. Hong Kong and Cantonese are somewhat a grey area at the moment, although Cantonese itself is thriving nevertheless.

DiscourseFan 3y ago

>Anything touches, regardless of positivity, to minorities and people shout SJW! Well, Cuban-Americans are mostly white and they tend to be members of the far-right, so, it makes sense that a bunch of white liberal social-justice types would support them since the only metric they care about is "diversity." Not to mention, of course, that there is no such thing as a "cuban" ethnicity, Cuba is as ethnically diverse as the United States, probably moreso, its just that the majority of those who fled were the rich white population, which naturally supported anti-communist policies when they came to the US.